[
Deleted.
another fine choice,gettorat,and another fine read…
Shall i respond to Bill’s view and observations more specifically,or is your mind already closed…
LeeD,this data will only provide a basis of reference,you will still have to make the right choices,based on the ‘end user’…
Kite,the SUP market,should be important to us too…
Kitey,
ok you win.
take a honda 50
to a track meet
on a 440 track
and race the atheletes
and win a lot of races.
Put your feet on the ground often
ahh you still aint a track and field
all star.
Surfing is a metaphor added to
towed by a kite( which is indeed
an inflatable wing .-
The real identity of the kite + planing tool is
NOT A SURFBOARD
thanks for dripping oil on the track
go play with the water skiers and
tell THEM you surf.
…ambrose…
buzzy trent said about towing in
‘‘IT"S NOT SURFING’’
neither is Kayaking
or running a remote control from the couch
or sitting endlessly at a computer accessing random info
or standing on top of a train in brazil going real fast.
surfing has become the wanna be dumping ground for assorted
people humping a feeling they will never achieve,
weightless unencumbered flight
what is surfing to you
?
a couch
and some printed matter?
bitchin.
I just madde a date with my wife
to go to the beach just before dark
so she can swim An I will ride my
mat after all the kids and pregnant minds
have gone to feed their delusions of
Granduer,or compile measurements.
how long os your swance?
when you get old
it’s just a bladder drain
not an insert for a hole
in a lavatory wall.
I’ll feel better after my pineapple juice.
Aloha Kiterider
Kiting is cool. But is not the revolution.
Kiting is to Surfing as Dirt Biking is to Mountain Biking. Same terrain … but that is about it. Horsepower changes everything!
Kite,u deserve this reality check for high jacking this thread
finding horsepower,performance and control,by design,from the natural energy of waves, in a craft most suited to the end user,would be what most people are looking for on here…
tho Ben Wilson and crew do provide some light relief,lets hope they lock into another big one soon…
gettorat,now u are involved,and i’m waiting…
Aloha GDog
Are you thinking that customers are not coming to hand shapers because hand shaper’s boards don’t work good enough cause their rockers are not up to par and able to compete with mass producers.
And if this "Rocker Catalog" exists on Swaylocks, say, 500 or so curves and numbers representing them. Hand shapers would suddenly know which one to use and then be able to make better boards?
How would they know which rocker to chose?
Would recommendations for use, come with each listed rocker?
Would they be trustworthy? Or would it be like most of the shaping videos on YouTube. Yikes!
And in the end, how would anyone know if the rocker was correct unless they shaped it into a board and tried it out?
Are they even skilled enough to be able to translate the rocker accurately into foam?
Would they do the this testing? Recording of Data? And then evolving it over and over again to suit their Shaping style, customers and waves?
IMPORTANT info coming.....
If one doesn't personally; shape, test, verify, record their data and continually evlove the data.......
They will be just COPYING OTHERS or GUESSING, based upon what OTHERS have already done.
That said, Hand Shaping, and being successful at it, is not about copying rocker numbers from a chart.
And counting on that for success, is not likely to move one very far up the success ladder or make any dent in the mass producers market share.
Sure, the copier, if done right, might luck out and make a slightly better board. But while he is trusting his growth to copying his competitors, who likely really understand how the process of making excellent boards works, will be streaking ahead through their hard work, dedicated focus, personal sacrifice and greater hands on personal experience. All which will transform them rapidly into masters of their craft and leaders in it.
Humans are creatures of habit. What we repeditively do, becomes common and familiar in time. Never get habitualized to what you don't want to become in the end. Copiers become just ...... well.... slightly better copiers!
If we repeditively strive for excellence and a deep understanding of our craft, those previously unachievable levels of excellence become as easy and familiar as breathing. Couple that with integrity, proper business skills and responsibility working with customers, and the last thing one will ever need to worry about is mass producers.
Does this look like it cares what anyone else is doing?
[img_assist|nid=1065848|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=173|height=640]
Well written Bill.
While gettorat puts his own thoughts into words,along with anything more the silent majority may care to add,can i respond to the copying issue..
Bill is one of the best copiers among us,by his own admission,whether its a 3-d image in a wire framework in the mind,or on the screen of a computer,because he seems to have the best techniques,based on a clear understanding,and an eye for detail.
They are an insight into a journey to put 'soul' into a board..
by getting everything right
Method which he has graciously offered in previous posts,and no doubt in the shaping room,for the lucky few..
and offering us a chance to do likewise
An over-riding factor in the success of the machine,will be its ability to replicate perfectly..
we should learn from them, that copying is not a dirty word
----
So,what do you need? besides a miracle..
Guns..Lots of Guns!
-- the matrix --
[img_assist|nid=1065848|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=173|height=640]
[/quote]
copying is not a dirty word,
plagerism is.
getting it right is only for rincon
the overiding factor is sucksess.
The validation for the uncertain craftsman
is that the board you copy is a ‘good’ board
and that you can deliver a ‘good’copy’
when trying to snow the next guy’s
acceptance.Classic american sportscar
sales pitch. an alpha romeo is not
a Corvair Monza SS.
nor is a rocker copy of a
Bletch Farnocke
honolua bay model.
…ambrose…
its ok if you dont get it.
illumination takes time
bhudda needed a bo tree
in Kandy…
Ambrose, Gotta call you out,
Surfing is the graceful ride on the ocean’s waves. Kiterider is no more dripping oil into the ocean than a dolphin sparkling under a runnng swell, a bodysurfer in unencumbered dance, Greenough on his knees, or a Airmat rider in trim.
The wind moves in pulses and waves as does the ocean. Harnessing nature in play.
Isn’t that the Aloha spirit? Welcoming all in their own way?
To disrespect anothers dance because it isn’t your own is beneath you. Too tribal, too ghetto, too Zenophobic
Manners GDog, Manners.
You are right we harness the waves, both wind and water. Kiterider was the one to actually support rocker numbers being posted, and gave some of his own. That is** “what most people are looking for on here…”**
**
**
every, just dont get it?
good.
…ambrose…
your right everysurfer,thanks for standing up and saying so,
i think Kite knows how i feel,and how he’s helped me enter new market,without the ability to test the craft myself,(an that idea sounds unworkable to me anyway)
a market which i, like many others, may need to survive…
thanks Bill,these questions do need answering…
theres lots here,so i’ll start at the top and cover them all in time…
No,regarding the rockers we are using,i believe most are very close to getting it right…and we can prove it
i am saying,in the future the customer will, and should expect this option, to be able to repeat any rocker they choose
unless there is any meaningful arguement and proof of ownership of course,
in which case will should get it on here,and have a look at it…
bottom shape is going to make so much difference anyway
and i hope we can collate that information too…)
I agree with Bill and everysurfer, aloha should be our underlying principle in sharing here. Kite surfers should be as welcome to post and share here as anyone else. I don't think we need to start breaking up into elitist camps - where would it end? Once I get rid of everyone who doesn't think like me, what am I left with? Myself, LOL!
Let me start with some ideas. For the pureists out there, this is my own work, which I freely share. I didn’t copy anybody, just made the same or similar boards (mostly rounded pin short boards) repeatedly, with different rockers and bottom contours.
The first idea is that rocker is a series of curves. Entry, middle, and tail. Every curve is a segment of a circle with a defined radius. The different radiuses can be placed in the three different sections of the board.
Nose and tail measurements don’t tell the story. example of two typical 5" nose, 2 1/2" tail.
A entry rocker radius of 7' - Middle rocker radius of 40' - tail rocker radius of 25'
vs.
A entry rocker radius of 7' - Middle rocker radius of 25' - tail rocker radius of 40'
If the greater radius measurement is in the tail, and more curve is in the middle, the board will go faster, and stiffer than the exact nose and tail measurements with but flatter in the middle, and more curved in the tail,
Look at the US Blanks 68 A. The entry rocker radius is 5’-2". The middle rocker radius is 27’-10". The tail radius is 38’-7" This blank will be stiff in small waves, compared to a different blank, where you reverse the middle and tail radius numbers.
So for what it’s worth, here is what I found. If you want to turn easy, small waves, but not a lot of drive, 35’ radius middle radius, with a 6’ radius tail flip, and 2 3/4" rise tail measurement Will work really good, makes me surf 20 years younger, but only if I stay in the pocket. In the flats, and you are dead. Same board with the US Blanks 68A natural rocker will go down the line twice as fast, but be half as quick to do a full cutback.
My winter 7’-8" semi gun flies down the line, is stable, but will still cutback has a middle and tail radius of 28’. 2 3/4" tail rise. But if you go back to the US Blanks I mentioned earlier, that natural rocker was 38’-7" radius. WHy is the longer board 28’ while the shorter board is 38’. Because with the semi gun so mush longer, it wouldn’t turn at all with the larger radius.
Why do flat fish work? because they are so short! If you want a longer board to turn, increase the curve and where you put it matters.
So to end this post… more curve in the tail, flatter in the middle will turn easier, but go slower than more curve in the middle, and flatter in the tail, with the same tail rise measurement.
wht I found out
for what it is worth
Xenophobia’s official profile
including the latest music,
albums, songs,
music videos and
more updates.
But if you go back to the US Blanks
I mentioned earlier, that natural rocker was 38’-7" radius.
the longer board 28’
shorter board is 38’
Because with the semi gun so mush
So to end this post… easier, go slower .
gun flies
i like it everysurfer,slighty different tack,there would always be problems intergrating another way of describing rocker into main stream, wouldn’t it be a lot easier to get that information across, interfacing via a 3-d design site,referenced with other models of that gender,and a collection of your previous rocker, bottom shapes…lets make an informed choice…
GDog,
I think design stagnates because guys don’t get what is happening, but leave it at that other guy’s rocker did this, so I’m going to copy it. I think that’s where earlier posters we going when making a distinction between the followers and the Master. (not to imply that I’m anything but a Garage Hack!)
A computerized 3d rocker catalog referenced to all other models? At that point, you might as well buy off the rack. Channel Islands website already has all their models posted with performance characteristics, rider skill level, and wave it should be ridden on. You really aren’t creating anything special, so why go through the effort?
appox. in my experience is as far as you can go. ive had identical shapes off a machine and they always go different. i gave up on computer shapes because i like shaping.
custom ordering rockers is like custom ordering differences in a 32nd or 64th of an inch i guess theres craftsmen who can do it but please dont tell me anyone can tell the difference in the water.
ie; the deck line, deck roll bottom shape just for the more obvious differences would be next to impossible to measure without a program and even finishing a pre-shape could drastically change a 64th measurement. drastically because its not a wide point or the deck roll 6’’ from the nose. its the whole shape blending to that 32nd or 64th.
differing flex patterns from materials and working of materials are another huge variable which would play a bigger part then the slight differences in rockers of same 3-4 point measurements.
great to aim at something but dont get lost in meaninglessness. as they say aim high but dont get too close to the sun…well maybe i just made that up hahahaha 
no offence perfectionists! we can agree to disagree!