The Surfer's Journal - Vol 14, No 4

General Discussion
81

ok a summary …

we had an article in a surf mag , which were comments and interviews with 8 surfboard industry indentities …

then after some , warmer than usual discussion , it rolls into the state of the industry , epoxy v poly , some anecdotal accounts of whats really happening , a dig or 2 at the surf media ,the attitudes and opinions of industry crew themselves , trends within surfing , marketing , the examples of other industries who have faced the same outside pressures and entrenched attitudes within , there was pricing , globalisation v mom & pop ,government intervention via VOC laws ,a look at the past for potential future trends , copyrights ,those with crystal balls , and those with bells and whistles ,custom is the salvation , and what really is a forum ???

so we have a forum …

is it useful , or is just a bunch of pious minnows blowing hot air , each with his own agenda ??

can we actually do anything to keep local surf industry alive and well , and sustaining natural development of design and construction ??

or do we just sit back and give a narration of whats happening as the ship goes down , (gripping media ) …

if guys like me and greg are the bad guys and no body sees what we see , then i would be curious as to the answers that someone who builds polyester boards has …

is there a strict pu/pe advocate that feels they have an answer to the industries problems ???

and by industry i mean surfboard manufacturers in particular , as retailers have actually profited from the industry decline …

earlier i quoted some numbers in regard to wholesale prices , so if anyone outside the industry feels they have some answers , take those basic numbers into account …

as it stands now , there are a few of us working in the direction of supporting local industry , by putting the latest tech in the hands of street level board builders and designers , with documented evidence of clear demand and margins and with an upper hand over imports and the retail sector which has driven the industry into decline …

now you guys in the media who are reading this can do your bit as well …

how about a nip at the hand that feeds you , because if you guys dont do your bit to help the surf industry , youll end up a subsiduary company of the major players …

basically the buying public , surfing mag readers , have no concept of the state of the industry …

but on top of that, many within the industry have no idea either …

still so many misconceptions , general fear mongering has seen epoxy , composite related products get branded amongst asian imports and lumped together …

you say epoxy and the first thing people think is import …

was talking to a bunch of 12 year olds (one was 10) at the huntington show …

they had every excuse in the book why epoxy was no good and didnt perform , someone standing next to me said "well someone got to them early " they had been mis educated ,shocking stuff …

so is that the answer ???

the traditional propaganda war ??

or has somebody got a real plan …

the essentials are , keeping local industry alive , so the craft can be passed down and the surfboard plus surfing can continue to develop …

because in that interview , of the 8 , 7 were based in insulated cozy industry enviroments , where no real effort into sales needs to be done …

in these epicentres of surf culture , the masses flock for a piece of the scene , tourists/surfers , buy what ever is on the shelves and there is massive local surfing populations …

but outside those areas , your product stands alone …

interesting , the comments from the only guy outside the traditional surfing area …

out of those 8 ,he was more aware of the things to come …

ok , whos got answers ???

more of the same till the ship actually sinks ???

or can board builders find a voice ???

regards

BERT

82
Quote:
Greg,

I don’t think the fallout is going to happen. I think the fallout is here for some parts of the industry. The days of the small core shop, (regardless of the few still operating) is gone and over.

Nobody told Geoff Rache. Better send a memo.

For anyone who doesn’t know, GR is M10. He’s even got some surftech plugs in his name. But he’s also got the newest, shiniest surfshop in Santa Cruz. Couple t-shirts, couple bars of wax…and dozens of his own boards in the racks. Its all about the boards. Handshaped, handglassed, hand-delivered.

Did I mention that the boards are all glassed with RR epoxy?

Maybe I also forgot to mention that Geoff’s basically seen as the sharpest, most current, most dynamic shortboard shaper in Santa Cruz. Maybe it ain’t San Clemente, but they know a little sumpin sumpin about surfing up there.

Quote:
Poly vs epoxy: I agree with Greg completely about one thing; why try and shape a featherlight poly board? Your creating a piece of junk. Epoxy rules this market if lightness is what your after.

Yep. Ever seen a video of Ratboy busting air over weasel reef or waterfalls? How many 4oz pupe’s would he go through doing that sh!t? Your comment above (and I’m not trying to pick on you personally, solo) just so nicely illustrates the point that evolution happens. And I’m not talking about Wayne Lynch-type Evolution that stays in business by selling $$$ boards to MTV.

http://www.m10surfboards.com/

83
Quote:

Nicely put Mark! But if half the pick-ups really had boards in them or on them i woulda snapped a long time ago and split lol. Not far off though. -Lokbox

The sad thing is Mark was only looking at pickups - he missed all the shortboards inside the regular cars.

Jeez Bert, you guys almost got through this - the surf is finally above ankle high in Southern California today and that always tends to loosen things up. This doesn’t do me any good, however, as I’m still stuck by a phone negotiating a long and boring insurance payment war between a health care provider, a former employer, and an insurance company. Usually somebody has to go on a work trip or inland vacation as a sacrifice to get waves for the rest - maybe I’m doing my little bit here. But I’m getting tired of doing the right thing, you know? Sometimes it seems like life straightens right out if I don’t surf at all…funny how that goes…but it’s a pisser.

Mark mentioned God in one of his earlier posts…Bert mentioned everything else covered in this thread. But let’s pump up the God thing into Religion, just for entertainment…

Quote:

For Jesus himself testified that a prophet

has no honor in his own country.

- Gospel of John

So much for seeing the future, eh? ;-). We knowhow that story went. I guess that covers almost all the contributing factors.

But how about pro surfing? A lot of us are “old” surfers…and remember the world before 1980. Once serious money came into the surfing picture things got hinky. As we have come to find out from a very few surf media sources, a lot of early famous surfers dropped off the scene when they had to get real jobs, made “fortunes” selling drugs, or went to prison. There never really was a huge benefit for surfers to bend over or toe the line until the whole surf clothing/surf media/sponsorship thing got going. There developed a whole economic circle jerk which for the most part corrupted the surf media. Most of the magazines are no longer “journalism” but are basically porn. When surf movies turned into surf videos, same thing (except exchange the word “journalism” with “art”). As the money ebbed and flowed a whole career track developed in the “surf industry”, which as we have noted before really doesn’t seem to much include surfboard building.

From what I am told one of the key skills needed to get and stay in the surf industry in 2005 is knowing how to play the guitar…

It used to be about riding waves; now sometimes it seems to be about making money. Money validates your skill. Money allows skills to develop through comfortable travel to third world pits (on many levels). He who makes the most money from surfing therefore must be the Best Surfer…and therefore that person’s equipment must be the best (shhh! Saying that is what we pay you for)…to borrow from Pete Gent in North Dallas Forty the surfers aren’t the team, they’re just the equipment!

So all this leaves very few people with any knowledge or experience to have any perspective on the whole surf thing. The surf media and whatever other media who dip their toes in during summer special issues would have you believe that Laird Hamilton is the most influential surfer in the world (or maybe Jack Johnson - I can’t imagine the Malloy brothers haven’t tried to get him to endorse Point Blanks). The thing is, Hamilton is cutting edge on really, literally “far out” aspects of surfing with little relation to the surfing lives of 90% of the surfers on earth…now go back to an earlier post and look at that board under the Joel Tudor label. Why is that board so expensive? It’s a deluxe item, a luxury…historically his boards have been made by top craftspeople, and he has first class artwork on them. You certainly can get just as good a board cheaper, but the whole package is just nice. Does anybody reading this not like that board? The guy has it wired…

Quote:

now you guys in the media who are reading this can do your bit as well …

how about a nip at the hand that feeds you , because if you guys dont do your bit to help the surf industry , youll end up a subsiduary company of the major players

Already done. Surfer and Surfing owned by the same company, HQ in NYC if what I heard is correct and current. Probably in the Standard Oil building…

Quote:

so we have a forum …

is it useful , or is just a bunch of pious minnows blowing hot air , each with his own agenda ??

can we actually do anything to keep local surf industry alive and well , and sustaining natural development of design and construction ??

or do we just sit back and give a narration of whats happening as the ship goes down , (gripping media ) …

Yeah, this is useful no matter how many times we may seem to go around the block. It isn’t discussed anywhere else in surfing. Maybe nothing gets decided this time, or the next, but then maybe somebody accidentally tumbles on a thought or just projectile vomits something into cyberspace out of anger and everybody says, well, “yeah… not exactly like that but you could…”

84

Hey Bert,

Nice sum.

All that stuff I wrote was by way of laying down some groundwork. Just want everyone to know that there is

a way to do this and that other people have used it to create good healthy lives for themselves and the people who appreciate their work. I’ll PM you with details of the plan.

It’s an idea I have that is too uncertain right now to open it up here and invite criticism before it has a chance to get past the embryo stage. Greg is on board so far. That is one. I need more than that. Trying to convince the US govt to do anything is a numbers game. I need bodies. Matt Biolas went to Congress, but he lacked ammo. Could not get any followers that way. I think I can supply the ammo. I see forming a group of unlike minds with a common cause because they now have a legal basis for their argument. And that is what it takes. I would prefer in addition to Greg that you and Nev and Rusty and Matt B. hear me out. You guys don’t have to agree on anything, but one thing and I have been working on a way that might supply that. If we can pull this together it will be interesting to say the least. m

85

“The sad thing is Mark was only looking at pickups - he missed all the shortboards inside the regular cars.”

Nope didn’t miss them. Plus had three boards and hottie in my rental Saturn with me too. We were actually counting cars and trucks with boards till it got tiring. That took about a minute. IN my post I said…

“I seem to recall driving along 5 and seeing half the cars and pickups having boards on them or in them.”

See? I said cars with boards in them.

Also, I need to clear this up…

“From what I am told one of the key skills needed to get and stay in the surf industry in 2005 is knowing how to play the guitar…”

This is a strangely applied oversimplification and quite misses the point. Not even close to my point, really, which was that other people have learned lessons in other businesses and industries that the surf industry has not, and yet it must if it is to change and survive. We can and must draw our ideas of how to survive from the misfortunes and experience and success and failures of other people in other industries. Why would we not. Is surfing so special it can not learn from others mistakes?

You yourself have said the 80’s surf industry had money, but it was funny money, drug money. Right?

It is common underground and urban legend knowledge that is only whispered about that surfing wasn’t generating it’s own capital. It wasnt paying it’s own way. It was heavily subsidized. The 70’s and 80’s and even 90’s surf industry was not unlike the music industry of which K. Richards once said “Drugs are an occupational hazard.”

But the drugs didn’t support the music industry the way drugs supported the surf industry. Or maybe they did at the highest levels creating a co-dependence sort of sick relationship. Hmmm. Read Pappa John. I always thought the music industry supported the drugs, because the drugs were deemed necessary by the talent to keep pace with the hectic concert schedules. But now we know better, that the schedules were only seen as hectic because they interferred with the taking of drugs. Look at Elvis…Dilaudid; synthetic heroin used as a pain killer by cancer patients. He had some 5 times the lethal doseage in him. Can’t go very far without a truck load of that to keep you going. Like trying to run with a wooden leg to paraphrase Mick commenting on Brian Jones dismissal.

So when the trafficking came to a halt and guys were jailed and the whole surf industry, the whole thing, collapsed. This coincided with a world wide economic collapse. Damn, now I have to wonder if part of that world wide collapse wasn’t partially the result of the success of Reagan’s war on drugs? How strangly possible is that?

Anywho surfing culture now supports surfing.

So how does the industry put this drug thing behind it? Well, by airing it out for one. I don’t mean narcing, I mean admitting the past was flawed, big time. Nels, I totally agree with you that talking here is a real good thing, because like you said talking like this ain’t going on anywhere else and yet there seems to be a demand for it and it seems the more it goes on the better our understanding gets for the size of the problems. The days of toking up snd shaping a board are probably mostly gone. All that is left is the funeral.

Lets move on. There is a bright future to discuss and plans to be made.

m

86

Well, allright Mark! Get Down!

Sorry - missed your bit about cars in the cars and trucks comment. If only there were the same number of hotties in the cars and trucks as boards, eh?

The guitar comment had nothing to do with music and everything to do with “looking the part” at industry social occasions…with your having a music background I should have spelled my thought out a little clearer but it’s hard to think juggling a phone sometimes. But at any rate the overall thing as I said was that since there is enough legitimate money in surfing now if you play the game there is little input from surfers who have experience in other industries…except of course right here…and probably then because so many of us are over 40.

Trying to break anything new in surfing is a long hard road. This forum is interested in surfboards and related technology. Most of us have at least heard of the Surf Industry Manufacturers Association, the trade group in surfing. The following is from their website.

Quote:

about sima.

SIMA is the trade association of competing surf industry product suppliers working together to magnify their power for the development of the surf industry by promoting awareness and participation in the sport of surfing; endorsing industry trade shows to assist members in bringing products to market; providing programs, services and information to assist members in improving business operations; supporting oceanic environmental efforts and by recognizing and being responsive to member needs

Sounds pretty good and straightforward, right? Actually professional. The following is a little release from a seperate group who met this summer at the same time as the SIMA surf summit in Cabo. Quoted from Transworld Business:

Quote:

BRA Host Retailers

Held in conjunction with the SIMA Surf Summit was the second annual Board Retailers Conference, hosted by the Board Retailers Association. The event drew about 50 retail heavy hitters from shops like East Coast Board Co., Laguna Surf and Sport, Spyder, and a lot more. BRA Founder Roy Turner worked hard to develop a compelling retail-focused seminar program that ran concurrently with the SIMA program, and for reasons both practical, and political the interaction between the BRA and SIMA groups during the seminars was more limited than in years past, which was a shame because both conferences had a lot to offer. Highlights from the BRA programs included how to cope when disaster strikes, team management, expanding into the Hispanic market, what it takes for retailers to compete with the large-format retailers, how to protect your assets, and more.

If there is one group totally left out of that all-encompassing industry extravaganza, it is the group that makes boards…from materials to finished product. I was going to continue to ignore all this but since Mark kind of broke open the windows for a bit of much appreciated fresh air I thought we ought to really air out some laundry. Let’s let it rip!

If people like us don’t kick it around someday all we’ll have are semi-big box surf shops, carrying the names of clothing manufacturers, featuring interchangeable Surftech knock-offs with the only difference being the logo decals. Surfers will be thoroughly branded like cattle, anybody non conforming will get pushed out like a calf with mad cow disease…

87

I thought Elvis was into fried banana, peanut butter a demerol and jelly sandwiches not dilaudid?

I must lead a very sheltered life not to hear all those subsidized drug money urban legand stories in the surfboard business.

I have known lots of drunks and junkies who worked in the business but all the past of surfboard manufacturing to somehow be involved in the sales and distribution of drugs??? There are probably drunks and junkies in all walks of life to include your profession.

Speaking for the Hawaii guys I know you are wrong. In fact that’s a cold shot baby and you can get yourself in double trouble like it’s flooding down in Texas to include all manufactures in the few who have done such illegal activities.

Come on Bill Barnfield I really, really need the rest of the story. So that’s how you acheive all your success.

Maybe he is running a minuature graceland. Bill said the resin was flowing like beer on tap. Bud is a beer…, and the Puna district grows puna bud weed… oh never mind I see the connection.

88

“Wake up, Neo.”

89

Now CMP … Aaaa Hummmm … Few in the surf biz in HI had any drug dealing in their background??? You must lead a VERY sheltered life dude. I lived there four winters and if surfing was the #1 pastime on the NS it wasn’t by much. I’m pretty sure even BB would agree although he was in no way part of that. Probably had to do with some of his troubles; ie. not being part of the “high society.” “How can you trust someone who isn’t part of the brotherhood. The narc must be turning us in.”

I hope it’s a bit cleaner today but I have my doubts. Ice in HI … who’d a thought.

I have to say guys that this is one of the best threads I’ve read in my time here. Thoughtful as hell and broad in it’s scope. Write on!!!

90
Quote:

rip!

If people like us don’t kick it around someday all we’ll have are semi-big box surf shops, carrying the names of clothing manufacturers, featuring interchangeable Surftech knock-offs with the only difference being the logo decals. Surfers will be thoroughly branded like cattle, anybody non conforming will get pushed out like a calf with mad cow disease…

Already happened. The last remaining core shops are mostly out of business and don’t even realize it yet. This is what happens when you depend on clothing companies to create your image for you. As for surfers being branded; they run to that willingly. Those surfers wanting no brands are the exeption not the rule. It’s one of the few sports around where someone learns one or two basics and then claims to be exeptional and starts fishing for discounts and board deals. There used to be such a thing as paying dues and gaining respect, now pretty much anyone with a surfboard can walk down the beach and into any lineup (still a few exeptions) and get in the way without getting run out of the water. Heck, many of these shops will put anyone on their team, simply to keep them from shopping at the competition.

…And we have popout companies sponsoring surfers.

In the words of the wicked witch of the West: “What a world, what a world.”

91

still no ideas from the pu/pe advocates ???

im pulling back to the TSJ article again …

i was lurking at surfer forum last night and noticed a thread talking about this thread …

so now were going to get a little cross threaded , so this is also incorparating some aspects from that discussion …

it seems i may have upset a few crew with my accused blatant disrespect for legendry craftsmen …

well , lets see how this gets excepted , my version of between the lines …

i think the public perception that everyone who builds surfboards knows what there talking about is a myth …

i think i was accused of bagging one construction , when what i really should be doing is praising the virtues of mine , talking mine up and not talking theres down …

thats a fair comment , but in the process of saying ours are half the weight , 10 times stronger , last minimum 5 times longer , ride better , high performance and fast with zing and spring out of turns …

in comparison to what ???

so you have industry crew who are experienced , they rode an epoxy board once , they tried to shape one a few times , they even worked for crew who were introducing new technology …

then they go into a few reasons why its not right for them …

i think they may have missed something along the way …

so while the crew that tried had no sucess and couldnt figure out how to apply these materials sucessfully , does that mean it cant be done??

does that mean these materials are no good ???

these materials are not worth pursuing ??

so now you see how industry crew can mislead there market , into making them believe these materials have no merit because they tried and failed …

they would have been better off to not take the, yea ive been there done that line…

so while the argument was put forth that anyone who doesnt see it my way is clueless (not my words)…

the bottom line is yes they have overlooked a few things …

so if i stand up and say hang on , those opinions are misleading or not entirely correct , i then get branded as arrogant …

it works both ways …

how about the urethane and polyester guys do there marketing on the same merits , expound the virtues and benifits of that construction …

but while there at it , forget the misleading comments on alternative materials , coz there inexperience in exploring the possibilities is clearly discernable between the lines …

they have a responsability to the surfers and market with there posistion as respected shapers …

so giving emerging technology negative conatations doesnt help there cause …

its board builders who stand between the surfboard and the market …

they just have to relax , if they personally arent interested thats fine , as long as they keep there comments to positive aspects of there own construction and not the negatives of there own limited experience with alternatives …

this particular board featured has been jumped on , by literaly hundreds of people , at this show alone it was jumped on nearly all day everyday as a trampoline , at least 30 hours of pounding and its still perfectly surfable , if you dont consider the nose has been ground down from rubbing on the ground …

its as light as any pros board , almost impossible to dent (my thumbs arent bony enough so i cant dent them ) but probably 1 out of 5 can just struggle to get a dent in it , fully customisable in both shape and graffix …

im sorry , but this is what they dont want you to know , coz they dont wanna put in the effort to work around the differences in materials …

they wanna do the same thing in the same way theyve done it for 30 years , its just to much drama …

ok thats fine , but please dont bag me for highlighting some attitudes …

because to be honest , all you crew out there, lobster being one , who hasnt seen or handled one or even ridden one , have no concept of what your resisting …

your only thing to compare to are the failed attempts of others or entry level moulded imports …

that being said , apologies for offending anyone , just stating my case …

regards

BERT

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92

Well folks…

let me be the first to welcome you to the commoditized world of bending over for the mass market.

It happens to the best of them

you wanna get big then ya gotta pay the price.

We’d probably be better off if we were all still a bunch of dope heads out of the scope of big time advertising and media trying to make a buck off the ipod file sharing generation AZ-ZZ…

Let me tell you, things gotta get alot worse before they’re gonna start getting better… You ain’t seen nothing yet.

It takes alot of pain to initiate substantial change.

Just look at gas prices… what’s the breaking point $5?, $10?, $20? a gallon…

as long as that keeps going the way it is, survival of the “surf industry” as we know it won’t be on anyone’s mind…

Think about at $20 a gallon who’s got the extra moolla for a new board?

We used to siphon gas from cars in parking lots during the last gas crisis just to get to the northshore and back coasting as far as we could. Remember those days??

Surfboards are becoming just another water spots commodity just like the clothes, wetsuits etc etc…

It’s all about marketing and generating buzz where you need it…

You know the super-special-extra-fabulous-clean and healthy model versus the super-special-extra-fabulous but not so clean and healthy model

Just look at Bert… Surfburger? Springer? “State of the Art”?..Buzz word heaven

A piece writer’s creation of explaining what Burt does only 1/10 as good as hearing from the man himself…

Boards have been commoditized for along time, we just haven’t open our eyes to admit it. When the cost of doing any business doesn’t make sense anymore then that’s when people have to ask themselves those tough questions…

Outsourcing and industry consolidation are standard options every commoditized product has taken.

The bigger get bigger, your options disappear, the rich get richer and the poor get plain ignored.

It’s happened/happening everywhere and it’s happening here. or maybe you can’t see it or are willing to accept it.

Mobilize, unionize march and petition…

But do you think anyone with a billion in their pocket to spend really gives a hoot whether surfboard building survives intact or not…

don’t kid yourself… Like you all said you’re viewed globally as a group by the power brokers correctly or incorrectly as a bunch of ex-druggies looking for another fix another handout to sustain their high their little game on life…

But as you stand before mister bigshot redneck “I love Oil” politician, how do you explain to him how saving the surfboard industry from it’s own self induced demise is going to bring our boys home from Iraq, reduce our dependance on oil, eliminate the driving need in China for a better life, save social security, stop the Aids epidemic, or put an end to terroism… That’s the challenge…

We only need to be saved from ourselves, as we only have ourselves to blame for where we are…

ironically that kind of goes for alot of things here…

If you do what you can when you can as you can which most of us don’t…

then you don’t have to worry about that monstrosity in this global picture as all of us combined tenfold isn’t going to move what those folks in those smoke filled rooms Mark alludes to are deciding what’s right for all of us… Become a major player own or control 30%-40% market share of what ever industry you command and then maybe you’ll get invited to be part of the club… It’s just how it’s done in the “free market” society we’ve created here…

Now what was that original post about?

We’ve gotten so off track as usual again…

The old end of the world scenerio part 2

93
Quote:

I must lead a very sheltered life not to hear all those subsidized drug money urban legand stories in the surfboard business.

I have known lots of drunks and junkies who worked in the business but all the past of surfboard manufacturing to somehow be involved in the sales and distribution of drugs??? There are probably drunks and junkies in all walks of life to include your profession.

While I don’t know the particular specifics of exactly what Mark was referring to, and certainly not all or even most board manufacturers were primarily into drug sales or distribution, that general period saw a lot of businesses using illegal substances as something of a safety net. I didn’t hear about it at the time, either. Certainly the surf media didn’t broadcast anything; I thought for years Rick Rasmussen just made a wrong turn driving around NYC…

What I came to find out is a lot of businesses made the payroll in lean times via some drug sales to friends. Cocaine was big in the 80’s, and that’s what I’ve heard about most. "While I’m getting some, you want me to pick some up for you? " Enforcement was supposedly picking up, people paid a little extra for a friend to do the risky work. A few hundred here and there keeps a shop/workshop open. Dope pays for some work while others have to paycash. A bust happens and debts to suppliers don’t get paid, and if you get enough of that plus an economic downturn like the U.S. and especially California had after the end of the Cold War then that works up the chain. How extensive that went, I don’t know. And it most certainly wasn’t limited to surfing. I’ve seen it in machine shops especially…one example was finding out a shop in the Valley had all kinds of CNC sheet metal working equipment that held extremely close tolerances. Where I worked we were using Korean and probably WWII era press brakes and mills, and relying on machine operators to work magic. I figured this new shop would be way too expensive for us to sub out work to, since they had literally a couple of million dollars worth of equipment debt to sevice. But nooo…they said it was all paid for. A former employee later told me there was a huge chunk of money from “heaven”, which got the equipment sales people excited. Later once other equipment was in the shop they just stiffed the company. The company (or the sales guys) didn’t want used machines back so they settled for money from them whenever they could get it. Rather unfair to those who were honest…but we digress I guess…

94

Ahhh Bert,

Rumors of the death of this thread have been greatly exaggerated. Stoke the fire. m

95

change is the only constant.

i can hear the chatter of our elders…

“solid wood if the only way we know…”

“redwood is the only way to go…”

“this is sweet, can’t get any better!!!”

“make it hollow!!..”

"hey fellas, check out my new “hot curl!”…

“this is sweet, can’t get any better!!!”

“balsa is the best!”

“what is that rudder on the bottom of your board??”…

“this is sweet, can’t get any better!!!”

“fiberglass???”

“foam???”

“this sweet, can’t get any better!!!”

“composite what? vacuum what?”

“this is sweet, can’t get any better!!!”

hehehe, thanks for the new avatar bert, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy…

96

Greg,

so name the names. Of the major three production shops around here which one of the families made their success in the community having a surfboard manufacturing shop as a front to sell drugs? I call total B.S. on the idea.

I can’t speak for every wanker with a glassing rack, but the drugies and alcoholics I know of from the 80’s are living in cars at haleiwa beach park or are sporting 11" center fin size livers. The lives that I have seen devistated, ruined marriages, jail time all because of alcohol and illegal drugs. They just happened to work in the industry. They probably would have done the same wherever they worked. Also the work hours of a backyard operation are great for hangovers and till the early morning parties. Did the addict find the ultimate job for the habit or did the job cause the habit. I think the first. It’s all fun a games until you get ripped off by the junkie glasser or sander and then the ugliness starts. Drugs didn’t subsidize anything about thier surfboard making careers. It just subsidized thier fast track to ruin.

Cocaine has been smuggled in baby food containers to surfbaords. You are not involved in the huge drug ring conspiracy are you???

Most reasonable people don’t conduct in illegal drug activity to survive and provide for thier families. SO surfboard industry people need drug sales to make it???

Wrong conclusion for a much bigger problem regarding addiction and illegal drug use.

Anyhow the opium for the masses is rr epoxy isn’t it? Anyone need a fix? can repair poly and epoxy boards with it.

97

Oneyla,

Buddy, you are right on track.

The main theme of this thread is DENIAL.

Everything everyone has said is orbiting around that.

First step is admitting there is a problem.

I see the world as a big ostrich all bent over with it’s head stuck up it’s ass. And all the little worlds like the surf idustry etc. are just baby ostriches mimicking that.

I have prepared a longer version, but I’m going hold it for tonight and sleep on it.

m

98

Greg,

Steer clear of CMP.

I mean it, in no uncertain terms.

I’m calling this publicly for reason.

He’s really losing it.

He’s playing sick and dangerous game, goading you to turn narc like he is. There is no logical angle to any of what he says. He’s so far from making any sense it’s scary. And he doesn’t know Dilaudid from Demerol. What kind of D.? …

If Charlie has a problem he should take care of it himself

and not involve anyone else in it.

So be careful. Watch out! It’s a sick trick.

Just ignore him and I’ll take care of him later.

I’m done preparing my reply. Just being extra careful by sleeping on it. More should do the same. Just a humble suggestion I follow that is also in the rules here. m

99

Bert, it’s all good but remember that for the vast majority of the surfing market the phrase “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” fits perfectly. There is nothing lacking in current surfboards for them. They don’t need boards that can be thrown to the ground or jumped on or that are feather light.

I’m amazed by what you have created, but want to caution against assuming it is something everyone needs and would realize they need if it weren’t for the big bad industry status quo telling lies about it.

Previously I’ve cautioned against assuming (and betting one’s livelihood) that durability is going to be a big selling point, and listed my quiver of long surviving pu/pe boards, the lack of broken boards in my surfing life, etc.

If I were to market surfboards, my observations of what surfer around me (and online) are excited by tell me that I’d stress the atributes in the following order: interesting shape (not necessarily “best” but providing a different sort of ride), cosmetics, durability. Watch carefully the surfermag forum and see what excites the users there. It is “alternative” shapes, and this year’s fads, be they fish, bonzers of various shapes/sizes, retro single fins, or whatever. They are more interested in surfing something that will give them a novel riding experience (and look unique in their hands and give them something to talk about) than seeking the holy grail best possible surfboard. I mean, if surfers were really interested in buying the best performing boards for high performance surfing, then no one would be surfing single fins or twins, right? And yet they are everywhere these days. Also note the reactions on the surfmag forum to the beautiful color and glass jobs of places like Moonlight. To a lot of surfers, that is simply what a surfboard should look like and they don’t want it to look any differently.

Perhaps your demo boards need to be something other than standard shortboard thrusters. The market for that shape of board is very small and getting smaller every day and it is also the market most driven by image of pro surfers (i.e. short thruster buyers want the board their favorite surfer rides, not something that is better but not ridden by their favorite surfer). The alternative shapes, on the other hand, are bought by more mature surfers with more disposable income to afford the extra cost of a surfburger. The longboard market also represents 50% or more of usa board sales, and the balsa look might sell well to them, though they are very traditional in their tastes of boards as well and not likely to see the need for new technology for their purposes.

100

MaraboutSlim,

On the marketing thing,

Quote:

If I were to market surfboards, my observations of what surfer around me (and online) are excited by tell me that I’d stress the atributes in the following order: interesting shape (not necessarily “best” but providing a different sort of ride), cosmetics, durability.

Thats true but its not the whole story. Step back and take a look at sport equipment in general, what sells it?

Price (for beginners)

Endorsement by pros

Technology

Image (particularly for the under 25’s)

Low price - China has that sewn up so let’s cross that one off the list. PU/PE makers are limited to endorsement and image, shape is really part of the technology category and PU/PE is pretty limited with how much further they can go with that. Nev/Bert can probably sell on endorsement,technology and image (assuming they get a good art director for graphics)

Getting back to your point about longboards - 50% of the market in the US - you can’t ignore that (Where I live its about 40%)- I’ll probably get jumped on for this, but aren’t longboards about the fact that high performance chips don’t suit the average surfer? This is where technology come in again - boards that paddle and perform. But performance shortboards is where you gotta go first to get pro endorsement - once you get credibility with the great unwashed then you can use technology to create boards they can really use and use technology to sell them.