thickness does NOT equal paddling power

General Discussion
1

well to an extent, it does, but its nowhere near as significant as width or length (especially), in my experience.

i had the opportunity with the last two swells to ride a variety of 70’s original and modern 70’s influenced single fins, and some 80’s thrusters, at rincon and various other waves. the boards in the 2 5/8 to 3 1/8 range in thickness trimmed better, were impossible for me to duckdive, and didn’t catch waves any earlier or paddle any quicker then boards around 2.5 thick. i think the magic numbers for me are from 2 3/8 to 2 5/8, any more and it just isnt doing anything for me. no advantage and when i get going really really fast and im plaining way above the water, its hard to really bury a rail that thick.

just thought id share MY new found, emperrical knowledge within my own realm of design. maybe some of you have had different experiences.

2

I’ll should be able to tell you that in a few weeks. Jeffrey Swartwood and I are building two identical 8’1" eggs except for the fact that one is 2.75" thick with 63 l. volume while the other one will be 3.25" thick with 69 l. volume. Both boards will have the outline and rocker stricktly identical (computer designed and then machine cut by atua cores), identical flat bottom and fin placement. Same foam (2 xps blanks cut out from the same block of foam), identical building process (experimental eco-friendly laminate made out of wood – no fiberglass/resin).

Can’t wait to compare and see how the thickness factor acts …

3

nah

just do a few pushups in the morning

or maybe a few laps of a pool

that would equal more paddling power

4

Paddling power comes to those who wait.

Wait for the wave with power

And paddle

5

hey pierre , ive done similar experiments , one board at 3 1/2 the other at 2 3/8 …

also another with a 6-4" x 1 7/8 against a 6’-6" x 3 1/2 , both with widths near 23 and in both cases the thinner ones caught waves easier , because thickness doesnt add to planeing area , the thicker boards werent releasing water as cleanly and hanging in the lip for that very reason …

volume is a myth …

rocker , rails , and area play the biggest role in wave catching ability …

thick boards feel like boats and want to stay on top of the water …

i could keep going on this one , but ive covered it extensivly in previous posts , even mentioning my boat racing days and experiments with planks and old boards in the river …

regards

BERT

6
Quote:

Paddling power comes to those who wait.

Wait for the wave with power

And paddle

I have to disagree with that as it definitaly does not apply to many situations.

I mostly surf in places where you don’t just sit and wait for the waves to come but instead you need to paddle constantly due to strong sideshore currents and shifting peaks. If you can paddle fast, then you can anticipate and be at the right place at the right time. Else, you’re always trying to catch up …

These are tiring surf sessions (you seldom get a rest and in winter you really burn energy fast), if your board is easier to paddle you can surf better and longer. And if, as “Silly” suggested improving your muscular strength makes you paddle better, then it’s great, but with a good paddling board that’s even better (longer sessions).

I also occasionaly surf Parlementia, France’s big wave spot. This reef wave breaks quite far offshore and it’s a long paddle to get there. The wave comes in fast and the area where you can take off is very narrow. Most people there surf longboard guns or 10’ guns 4" thick, else you don’t stand a chance to get a wave and all you can do is try to get the leftovers in the inside section.

Then every 20 minutes or so, a big set comes and that set is shifted far enough on the left so that if as soon as you spot the set coming in you can paddle fast enough you’ll catch it but if you paddle moderatly fast you can only avoit eating it and if you paddle too slow you go through a long washing machine … Here again, a fast paddling board really matters.

7
Quote:

hey pierre , ive done similar experiments , one board at 3 1/2 the other at 2 3/8 …

also another with a 6-4" x 1 7/8 against a 6’-6" x 3 1/2 , both with widths near 23 and in both cases the thinner ones caught waves easier , because thickness doesnt add to planeing area , the thicker boards werent releasing water as cleanly and hanging in the lip for that very reason …

volume is a myth …

rocker , rails , and area play the biggest role in wave catching ability …

thick boards feel like boats and want to stay on top of the water …

i could keep going on this one , but ive covered it extensivly in previous posts , even mentioning my boat racing days and experiments with planks and old boards in the river …

regards

BERT

Hi Bert,

I agree with you that if you paddle a 1 7/8" shortboard and that the board is mostly sunk, it won’t make much difference if that board is 3" and is still mostly sunk. I also agree that if you paddle a 3" longboard and that it already floats you, a 3.25" longboard won’t make you paddle faster.

But then :

Let assume an 8’ board of 63 liters. You need about 63 kg to sink it. I weight 71 kg which means some of my body (legs) well be partially sunk and create some drag.

Now take an 8’ board of 69 liters. The board almost floats me. Shouldn’t I paddle faster since I won’t have anymore drag from my legs ?

8

If we take into account the salt in the atlantic ocean (density of about : 1,0245 kg/l), then a 69 liter board would float a 70.7 kg person. Since I normally weight 71 kg I’d better go pee before I paddle out !!!

9

Oooops, forgot to add up the weight of the board… which means I’d also need to loose a bit of weight !

10
Quote:

both cases the thinner ones caught waves easier , because thickness doesnt add to planeing area

I think that the term paddling power is confusing. There’s paddling power getting on the wave and theres paddling in still water. I feel that thickness helps in flat water, but not in taking off.

11

I like thick boards, but maybe not under my back foot. Thick and narrow.

Thin certainly surfs well enough, and late pop ins can be easy and sweet, but…

This takes 3 strokes to START moving, two more than I want to spend energy on.

If you surf 5 days a week, use what you want.

If you surf 5 days every 3 months, better consider thicker.

And guns NEED to be thick, to prevent breakage and to access all the visibility and paddling power possible. You gotta understand that.

And if you’re surfing where you gotta paddle against a current constantly, a compromise has to be met between great feel and easy paddling…for the entire sesh.

Some peeps like thin tailed boards.

I’m thick enough to mash down most thicker rails, as long as the tail is narrow enough.

12

Bert nailed it … . also riding the right board for the right conditions . . . also surfer skill & exp. I’ve watched skip fry take off on his 12’, foot thick super carriers in near hollow set waves of the week and glide like a pelican past the humming bird activity of the shorter surfers on the inside

I had a surftech 9’2 3 inch thick longboard . … when I swapped that clunker 4 a 9’1 Harbour thin n narrow performance lb and found that much easier to catch waves and paddle 2 da line up. . . both due to better handling

13

So I guess this is a good thread to raise this question.

What do you guys use as a quick rule of thumb for limiting thickness while making the board paddle well?

to keep it simple, let’s keep it in the realm of thrusters.

Rio

14

Balance of surface area, rocker flatness, your weight, your paddle power, how often you surf, where you surf, the weight of the board, what you like in float, and a whole slew of other factors that determine float you need.

I used to try to ride a Rusty 7’6" x 18.75 in everything, but it was waaay to sinky and wouldn’t get out of it’s own way with 4 paddle strokes. Usually nipples in the water, bobbing down and up…

I’ve ridden 5’6" x 20 twin fins that paddled easier, caught waves sooner, and floated higher.

Everyone has a different threshold for float and surface area. 4/3 wetsuit and constant rip and current, or flop in the water, float out to lineup with no crowds…?

15

I agree with you! Its all about trade offs to get what you need. I find that the thin boards do require more work in general paddling. I don’t have the strongest roter cuffs. For about the first month after started surfing my wide/thin board my shoulder was rather tender. I needed to increase my land training to build my shoulder up to handle the new board. It wasn’t the catching the waves that was causing me grief, but rather getting the board started paddling for the first couple strokes until it was planning.

Its kind of like Drew’s (at least I think its his) tag - “The more you paddle the less you need to”. The more you surf thin boards the less you need the benifits of thick boards.

16
Quote:

hey pierre , ive done similar experiments , one board at 3 1/2 the other at 2 3/8 …

also another with a 6-4" x 1 7/8 against a 6’-6" x 3 1/2 , both with widths near 23 and in both cases the thinner ones caught waves easier , because thickness doesnt add to planeing area , the thicker boards werent releasing water as cleanly and hanging in the lip for that very reason …

volume is a myth …

regards

BERT

Hello Bert and Pierre,

I have done similar experiments . . and with more extreme differences in volume, too.

You are correct Bert in saying that volume doesn’t equal planing area, and that thin boards can catch waves more easily, but this only applies when catching waves by suddenly bursting onto the plane from a very slow submerged paddle speed, or by simply using the turn and go technique on steeper waves . . . . .

On waves which are more gently sloping in the takeoff area and when using longboards the situation is quite different because the board can catch the wave at displacement speed. Volume makes a big difference to the amount of effort used at displacement speeds. . . . thicker boards catch waves much more easily in these situations.

So it all depends upon what you are riding and where . . . thin is nice in gruntier waves with steeper takeoffs and thick is useful in soft waves.

I’m going thin this time around !

Cheers,

Roy

17

If the board doesn’t support your weight, it’s going to be slower.

18

Hi Poser,

After the “width vs thickness” thread of 18 months ago I stripped an old 6’8" 11"N 19"W 16"T

2 3/4thick down to 6’4" by 2" thick. 3 " off the nose 1" (less) off the tail and about 1/8"

off both rails.

Originally the board was super floaty and paddled caught waves very well (shaped for crappy

sydney summer beach breaks) , surfed OK - not great.

After the makeover I figured the overall surface area was not that much less, most of

the volume was taken off via thickness.

The result was a board that sat much lower in the water and required more effort to get up

and planing. It still paddled OK and caught waves reasonably well, however you had to keep

the speed up and any hesitation to change direction resulted in sinking - not easy in crowded conditions.

The other factor was surface chop and rips, I often found

with the board so low in the water it would be washed out from underneath me or dislodged

while paddling for a wave. Board actually performed better once surfing.

I Have also gone the other way with boards to 2 3/4" thick, and I must agree with Roy,

strong (fast moving ground swell) better with minimal thickness to your comfort level

and some rocker as well.

For slow flatter waves I found some thickness and flat rocker complement each other,

however there is definately a rule of diminishing returns when it comes to adding thickness.

For perspective I am 42 yo , 85kg 182cm tall, considered a strong paddler,

amateur shaper 20 or so boards.

19

can you say s-deck??? keep the thickness in the center and thin out towrads nose and tail, as well as the rails…allows for paddle power and sensitivity where you want it…

20

Anybody ever tried that :

According to the shaper, that gun is supposed to benefit from a lot of volume and contact area while paddling and then planing on the smaller area once you gain speed. Other advantage is to have a rather thick board while maintainting thin rails.

Source : http://www.longboardfrance.com/mag/rep/sgun.html