Hi everyone. I want to make a board with one layer of 4 oz quad axial top and regular 4 oz cloth bottom. Any suggestions or experiences with the quad axial btw this is the one without the carbon crosses in them. I have seen a few guys such as Haydenshapes use the quad axial for his futureflex never tried it though
Also will be using Polyuerethane
Thoughts??
Any input? Really curious.
Its a gimmick. If you want strength without weight use all S glass. Pro boards that use a single 4oz deck layer, use S glass. If quad axial was superioir, they would use it. The marketing line that it helps direct flex or torsional forces this way or that are BS. There are simply not enough fibers running in the 2 additional axis to matter in the real world. The weave in bi axial cloths doesnt look tightly woven at all either.
Most big name builders use gimmicks to varying degrees. Part of it is genuine experimentation, part of it is total shit.
Using the second to lightest PU foam and 2 layers of S glass on the deck my boards are essentially heel dent proof even after months of surfing.
Easier to work with for beginners though I hear, as an aside
I’m in Australia and I do not think you can aquire S glass over here.
Sure you can.
Not as strong as S obviously. But if you are really serious about “flex”; You should consider some combination of Hybrid fabric with Warp cloth as the base or layered with the Hybrid. Lowel
Multiaxial stitched fiber are really an improvement in higher weight. No real interest in 4oz, can be tricky to finish and to keep weight low. Not clear finish.
A simple approach to theoretically improve the multiaxial properties of your laminate is to use wider warpglass and lay your deck layers at opposite angles, say 15 degrees or so off axis. The real-world benefits of this are debatable, but it hardly costs a thing and lets you feel like a smarty-pants. Just be prepared to deal with more loose strands than usual.
A possible “Twist”.
Where? I live in Burleigh and Shapers and South coast foam do not sell it.
So I want a super light board I thought one layer of quad axial would be strong enough and light enough or reckon one layer 4 oz regular strong enough?
Pro boards with one deck layer use (regular weave) 4oz S glass. It can be ordered online. One layer of quad-axial 4oz will perform very similar, and possibly slightly worse, than regular 4oz e glass which will probably last a month or two at best if you are super gentle on your boards…or it might just buckle your first surf. Single 4oz e glass (any weave) on the deck is simply not strong enough.
If you want to experiment for weight savings try using an EPS core. At similar strengths (dent resistance) to modern PU high performance shortboards they can be much lighter. In San Clemente CA, local shapers are using 2lb, stringered EPS cores, with 2 layers of 4oz on the deck (either s glass + warp glass, or both layers s glass) and either 4 or 6oz on the bottom. Those boards are super light and resist denting about as much as a a PU high performance shortboard.
I gues you’ve got no clue what is quadaxial glass,
its four layers usually at 0, +45, -45, 90 degree each separately layered by machine, then stitched all together,
non woven, about 40 % more effective as fibers are straight.
no chance to make it under 400g/m2 more likely about 600g/m2 thats i dont know exatly, 20 oz ?
no chance to laminate it without vacbag
way better mat than woven even s glass, but forget about it…
Sorry but you are incorrect about the available weights. - http://www.shapers.com.au/4oz-quad-axial-shapers-cloth/
Also, when you start by saying ‘‘I guess you have no clue’’ do you not realize that you just come across as rude??? Telling people they have no clue, when they are simply trying to help is super rude…more so when you are the one who is incorrect.
I have laminated with quad axial before but it was with carbon and had another layer of 6 oz s glass.
Main question is would one layer be strong and light enough opposed to 4x 4 x4 or 4 x 4
At heavy weight stitch reinforcement need less resin than taffeta but at light weight their are gaps in stitch reinforcement that need more resin. Quad axial you speak about is more a biax with some fiber at 90° end 0°. Non crimp fiber (flat fiber) is a real improvement but stitch need lot of resin or an other layer of fiber over to be cover. I often use 6oz Xglass and know 9oz and 12oz for big board and sup.
I feared the twist issue as well, but figured if I did both off-axis layers at the same time, any twist would be evened out.
Second, I wonder this: twist is due to shrinkage, and it’s the resin thats shrinking, not the fibers. So shrinkage should be pretty much the same regardless of fiber orientation, right? (I know, I’m likely wrong in this assumption, but this is my reasoning.)
Third, I’m using epoxy, with which shrinkage is much less of an issue. So far, only done this on one board. Did bottom and deck this way, with no noticeable issues. Maybe I’ll steel myself, grab a few straight edges and lay them on there to make sure.
Ok anyways guys from the info everyone has given me I don’t think I’m going to go ahead with it next question is
What is 3/4 glassing? Basically I see Dhd boards which use 4 x 4 x 3/4??? I think it might mean toe or something anyone know?
sorry for being rude.
seems like down there at shapers.com.au are some really nice mats available…
still dont think its 4 oz as its very probably imposible to produce. and its not the real quadaxial as there are not 4 full layers. its what is called diagonal / biax/ double bias with two layers at ±45 degrees and maybe some fibers across here and there…
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/product_catalog/reinforcements/knitted_fabrics/knitted_fabrics.html
the minimum weight of one layer is about 4oz as those machines cant work with super thin fibers, so double bias can be 8oz , hardly less.
I think they call it 4 oz for the marketing purpose.
so your advise to go with 4oz s-glass - classic woven for light board is right.
double bias is softer than quadaxial, but still hard to wrap around rails without bagging, gues at haydenshapes they put the full layer o
at shaper they advise insert from quadax, than cover with cloth, gues insert means its not fully wrapped over the rail ? haydeshapes are looking like that…
all stitched mats are bettter to cover with cloth to prevent sanding into polyester stitching. so imho the min layup is 8 oz double bias+ 2oz clotth.
there are really good glass-carbon cloths, I’d go with that for a light board…