The post New board made me think about how my views have changed in the past few years about single fin LB’s… Paul J would give me a hard time about always building tri ( tri or 2/1 ) fin LB… So one day i made a change and pulled out my side fins and dropped in a bigger fin and I’ve never gone back… What lost in a little bit tighter turn i gain in Drive and carried speed. To me the time i spent pumping rail to rail to keep up with the wave was wasted Tip time. As far as turning a single fin LB draws a better line with it’s long rail lines that wants to draw a longer arcing line anyway. Think about design with 6’2 rip stick we keep wide point at center or behind only because the need to ride the tail and control the small rail line. So if that’s the case why do HPLB still carry there width forward 5 to 8 " forward?? So if you want to ride a LB ride a single fin. If you want to ride a tri fin shouldn’t it be designed to ride the tail??? Ever feel the tail on a tri float wanting to go left or right because of the toe in on the fins?? Do you think a rockerd out Tri fin LB is pushing water slowing you down when your on the nose and not going rail to rail… So what do you old boys think? Tri or not to Tri that is the question? Is the single fin the logical way to Longboard? What are LB really made to do? beside getting all the waves!!! Sorry i had to say that.
The post New board made me think about how my views have changed in the > past few years about single fin LB’s… Paul J would give me a hard time > about always building tri ( tri or 2/1 ) fin LB… So one day i made a > change and pulled out my side fins and dropped in a bigger fin and I’ve > never gone back…>>> What lost in a little bit tighter turn i gain in Drive and carried speed. > To me the time i spent pumping rail to rail to keep up with the wave was > wasted Tip time. As far as turning a single fin LB draws a better line > with it’s long rail lines that wants to draw a longer arcing line anyway.>>> Think about design with 6’2 rip stick we keep wide point at center or > behind only because the need to ride the tail and control the small rail > line. So if that’s the case why do HPLB still carry there width forward 5 > to 8 " forward?? So if you want to ride a LB ride a single fin. If > you want to ride a tri fin shouldn’t it be designed to ride the tail???>>> Ever feel the tail on a tri float wanting to go left or right because of > the toe in on the fins?? Do you think a rockerd out Tri fin LB is pushing > water slowing you down when your on the nose and not going rail to rail…>>> So what do you old boys think?>>> Tri or not to Tri that is the question? Is the single fin the logical way > to Longboard?>>> What are LB really made to do? beside getting all the waves!!! Sorry i had > to say that. I like single fins on long boards.Most of my customers leave the decision up to me.I will put sidebites if they want but they usually end up riding with one fin.I usually don’t argue the point anymore…just make em happy.A lot of this stuff is mental anyway.Also I like flat rocker blanks like Yaters 9’1 and 10’1.My theory has always been to keep it simple…R.B.
I like single fins on long boards.Most of my customers leave the decision > up to me.I will put sidebites if they want but they usually end up riding > with one fin.I usually don’t argue the point anymore…just make em > happy.A lot of this stuff is mental anyway.Also I like flat rocker blanks > like Yaters 9’1 and 10’1.My theory has always been to keep it > simple…R.B. I started on a longboard with one fin. I will end my surfing days on a longboard with one fin.
This is a good question Rob. I’ve really tried to ride and appreciate a tri/ 2+1 design in longboards. I don’t have any problem justifying 3 fins in short board designs but dang it, I just can’t duplicate the all-round feel that a single fin longboard gives me. I’ve tried HP designs, rockered, low rocker, trifin, 2+1, different tail widths/shapes/fins and so on. So far I’ve come to the conclusion that a 2+1 or trifin design is a small/med performance type shape for me. I’m sure this is specific to each rider and the wave conditions at hand, for now it’s a 9’0"-9’6" flat rockered single fin plank that works best for me. That being said I’m hot to shape a Bob Pearson/N.Beckham style 9’0" twin fin. This shape looks like it might come from a HP blank like a 9’5"S or similar with 18" Nose and 12" tail with a couple of sleek twins. Anyone with some feedback on this design? Tom S.>>> The post New board made me think about how my views have changed in the > past few years about single fin LB’s… Paul J would give me a hard time > about always building tri ( tri or 2/1 ) fin LB… So one day i made a > change and pulled out my side fins and dropped in a bigger fin and I’ve > never gone back…>>> What lost in a little bit tighter turn i gain in Drive and carried speed. > To me the time i spent pumping rail to rail to keep up with the wave was > wasted Tip time. As far as turning a single fin LB draws a better line > with it’s long rail lines that wants to draw a longer arcing line anyway.>>> Think about design with 6’2 rip stick we keep wide point at center or > behind only because the need to ride the tail and control the small rail > line. So if that’s the case why do HPLB still carry there width forward 5 > to 8 " forward?? So if you want to ride a LB ride a single fin. If > you want to ride a tri fin shouldn’t it be designed to ride the tail???>>> Ever feel the tail on a tri float wanting to go left or right because of > the toe in on the fins?? Do you think a rockerd out Tri fin LB is pushing > water slowing you down when your on the nose and not going rail to rail…>>> So what do you old boys think?>>> Tri or not to Tri that is the question? Is the single fin the logical way > to Longboard?>>> What are LB really made to do? beside getting all the waves!!! Sorry i had > to say that.
This is a good question Rob. I’ve really tried to ride and appreciate a > tri/ 2+1 design in longboards. I don’t have any problem justifying 3 fins > in short board designs but dang it, I just can’t duplicate the all-round > feel that a single fin longboard gives me. I’ve tried HP designs, > rockered, low rocker, trifin, 2+1, different tail widths/shapes/fins and > so on. So far I’ve come to the conclusion that a 2+1 or trifin design is a > small/med performance type shape for me. I’m sure this is specific to each > rider and the wave conditions at hand, for now it’s a 9’0"-9’6" > flat rockered single fin plank that works best for me. That being said I’m > hot to shape a Bob Pearson/N.Beckham style 9’0" twin fin. This shape > looks like it might come from a HP blank like a 9’5"S or similar with > 18" Nose and 12" tail with a couple of sleek twins. Anyone with > some feedback on this design?>>> Tom S. Funny you mention the Pearson twin fins - I hadn’t ever seen them around but one day it seemed like every 10th guy out at Pleasure was on one. At first glance it seemed like they lost their center fin or I just didn’t see it due to the angle the board was at but sure enough there were only 2 fins. I didn’t see much difference in the ride (vs a single or tri) maybe a bit more loose. I prefer a tri on my “performance” boards and singles on my classics. I feel that I get more holding power and I can turn harder/tighter on the tri.
I ride a Yater 9’4" HP 2+1. I was riding it as a tri-fin for 2 years and it was certainly working for me, but when I popped out the side fins and surfed it as a single it changed my surfing and I will never go back to surfing it as a tri. Surfing was was lot smoother, more fluid, and if I put enough weight on my back foot I can turn it almost as tight as a tri, but not quite. Wave catching ability also increased. The tri-fin LB just seems to drag to much for me to enjoy. I also have a few different fins for certain conditions and I also play with fin position in the fin box. If I want to ride a tri-fin I pull out my 8’ Jacbos hybrid!>>> The post New board made me think about how my views have changed in the > past few years about single fin LB’s… Paul J would give me a hard time > about always building tri ( tri or 2/1 ) fin LB… So one day i made a > change and pulled out my side fins and dropped in a bigger fin and I’ve > never gone back…>>> What lost in a little bit tighter turn i gain in Drive and carried speed. > To me the time i spent pumping rail to rail to keep up with the wave was > wasted Tip time. As far as turning a single fin LB draws a better line > with it’s long rail lines that wants to draw a longer arcing line anyway.>>> Think about design with 6’2 rip stick we keep wide point at center or > behind only because the need to ride the tail and control the small rail > line. So if that’s the case why do HPLB still carry there width forward 5 > to 8 " forward?? So if you want to ride a LB ride a single fin. If > you want to ride a tri fin shouldn’t it be designed to ride the tail???>>> Ever feel the tail on a tri float wanting to go left or right because of > the toe in on the fins?? Do you think a rockerd out Tri fin LB is pushing > water slowing you down when your on the nose and not going rail to rail…>>> So what do you old boys think?>>> Tri or not to Tri that is the question? Is the single fin the logical way > to Longboard?>>> What are LB really made to do? beside getting all the waves!!! Sorry i had > to say that.
The post New board made me think about how my views have changed in the > past few years about single fin LB’s… Paul J would give me a hard time > about always building tri ( tri or 2/1 ) fin LB… So one day i made a > change and pulled out my side fins and dropped in a bigger fin and I’ve > never gone back…>>> What lost in a little bit tighter turn i gain in Drive and carried speed. > To me the time i spent pumping rail to rail to keep up with the wave was > wasted Tip time. As far as turning a single fin LB draws a better line > with it’s long rail lines that wants to draw a longer arcing line anyway.>>> Think about design with 6’2 rip stick we keep wide point at center or > behind only because the need to ride the tail and control the small rail > line. So if that’s the case why do HPLB still carry there width forward 5 > to 8 " forward?? So if you want to ride a LB ride a single fin. If > you want to ride a tri fin shouldn’t it be designed to ride the tail???>>> Ever feel the tail on a tri float wanting to go left or right because of > the toe in on the fins?? Do you think a rockerd out Tri fin LB is pushing > water slowing you down when your on the nose and not going rail to rail…>>> So what do you old boys think?>>> Tri or not to Tri that is the question? Is the single fin the logical way > to Longboard?>>> What are LB really made to do? beside getting all the waves!!! Sorry i had > to say that. Rob, I think that longboards have more than the one purpose of hogging waves. True, they paddle easier and catch waves easier and further out. But, they also ride smaller waves, and they’re more stable for beginners. Another area they excel in is “feeling.” By that I mean riding waves with as much or more emphasis on trimming than slashing. Not having to surf 3 times a week to stay in shape is another benefit. Noseriding is, or should be, an extention of trimming. As a trick or demonstration of skill, it’s a juvenile waste of a wave. To me, a flat rockered, round railed single fin is a natural combination…much the same way a heavily rockered, hard railed tri-fin is a natural combination. Mixing and matching those opposites is when the valid question arises, “Why?”
The post New board made me think about how my views have changed in the > past few years about single fin LB’s… Paul J would give me a hard time > about always building tri ( tri or 2/1 ) fin LB… So one day i made a > change and pulled out my side fins and dropped in a bigger fin and I’ve > never gone back…>>> What lost in a little bit tighter turn i gain in Drive and carried speed. > To me the time i spent pumping rail to rail to keep up with the wave was > wasted Tip time. As far as turning a single fin LB draws a better line > with it’s long rail lines that wants to draw a longer arcing line anyway.>>> Think about design with 6’2 rip stick we keep wide point at center or > behind only because the need to ride the tail and control the small rail > line. So if that’s the case why do HPLB still carry there width forward 5 > to 8 " forward?? So if you want to ride a LB ride a single fin. If > you want to ride a tri fin shouldn’t it be designed to ride the tail???>>> Ever feel the tail on a tri float wanting to go left or right because of > the toe in on the fins?? Do you think a rockerd out Tri fin LB is pushing > water slowing you down when your on the nose and not going rail to rail…>>> So what do you old boys think?>>> Tri or not to Tri that is the question? Is the single fin the logical way > to Longboard?>>> What are LB really made to do? beside getting all the waves!!! Sorry i had > to say that. There really is no wrong or right answer. It basically all boils down to what feels GOOD. If a rockered out long shortboard is your thing, hey cool man. If your into riding a single finned retro glider, right on. If find myself somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. I guess its reflected in the board I ride. It has one fin (well, it does have this little finlet in front of it), not too wide of a nose, but wide enough to support me on the nose, low soft rails most of the rail, and a slight bit more rocker than a retro. I can cruise if I want, or get a little more rail to rail action if the situation calls for it. Its a great all around board, and I wouldnt hesitate to take it with me if I were to travel. I do have a retro styled noserider type of board too, but its limitations become more apparent a lot sooner than with my other board. For me its single all the way.
Rob, I think that longboards have more than the one purpose of hogging > waves. True, they paddle easier and catch waves easier and further out. > But, they also ride smaller waves, and they’re more stable for beginners. > Another area they excel in is “feeling.” By that I mean riding > waves with as much or more emphasis on trimming than slashing. Not having > to surf 3 times a week to stay in shape is another benefit.>>> Noseriding is, or should be, an extention of trimming. As a trick or > demonstration of skill, it’s a juvenile waste of a wave.>>> To me, a flat rockered, round railed single fin is a natural > combination…much the same way a heavily rockered, hard railed tri-fin is > a natural combination. Mixing and matching those opposites is when the > valid question arises, “Why?” Leave it to Mr. Gross to ask why mix. To date the best longboard i’ve built was a 9’2 x 22 1/2 x 2 7/8 out of a 9’4R stock rocker ( that’s all we can get here ) Blue… It was a true Tri hull from the wide point back to light vee the last 18" to flat with a foiled out thin tail. By beveling the hull in 3/8" it raised my rail line center point higher making the railline straighter. The twin hulls that are basically under my feet added lift with a very soft 50/50 rail. I added a light nose concave that blended into the hull at the wide point. The bottom was busy but to this day i haven’t taken the time to shape another. That board was a single fin placed 7 1/2" up from the tail. It was as lose as a tri cause it rocked from rail to rail because of the tri hull. but had great trim when you wanted it. So its a mix. When i have time before spring i want to make another. Mixing is fun but i still think a single is the right way. it’s like a single on a shortboard they just don’t work as well as three…
The 3/8" bevel, which flattens out the rocker line of the rail, is key to understanding a longboard hull. That, combined with a single fin, are copesetic. My pet peeve about a flat (or nearly flat) longboard hull is that the rocker of the rail line and the rocker of the center line are fated to be the same. One or the other, or both, are going to be compromised. When you break up the bottom into different rocker lines, you are doing a lot of the work that the fin or fins would have to do. Thus, you need fewer fins. The old hot curl board is the perfect example. Curved center rocker, flat rail rocker line. No fin. It’s not quite that simple, but you get the idea.
…I don’t ride any tri-finned boards w/o it being Supercharged anymore,that’s either in a long or shortboard.I just know better,amd can feel the difference.I lose the out board drag,gain speed,gain forward positivity,catches waves earlier,paddles better,holds better,higher,to the point of riding out in the pitching part of the lip,and not stall out.Just moving faster,and faster.I can take off significantly behind the pack and zip by effortlessly. …If not Supercharged…a single gets my vote.Herb
The 3/8" bevel, which flattens out the rocker line of the rail, is > key to understanding a longboard hull. That, combined with a single fin, > are copesetic.>>> My pet peeve about a flat (or nearly flat) longboard hull is that the > rocker of the rail line and the rocker of the center line are fated to be > the same. One or the other, or both, are going to be compromised. When you > break up the bottom into different rocker lines, you are doing a lot of > the work that the fin or fins would have to do. Thus, you need fewer fins. > The old hot curl board is the perfect example. Curved center rocker, flat > rail rocker line. No fin. It’s not quite that simple, but you get the > idea. You know Paul not many people understand how important that is and how to use it… you put a flater rail rocker on a longboard and you add more drive Speed and better trim speed. I have taken a few steps back and forth with LB design but i’m leaning flater rocker and Tri Hull LB will be my direction for this new year… lighter stronger is the other part. that tri hull was glassed in 4s bottom and 4s6e deck glass on fin always… I still like the feel of a HPlight board. I would love to sit down some time and talk design with you maybe if i get south this winter… I feel tri hulls could be the next crazzz i see it coming back on shortboards. I made a 6’4 trihull and rode it for 6 months and it had a great feel… Just need to spend some time working out some of the things i didn’t like.
Rob, why didn’t you listen to me years ago???..You’re onto it now, but go deeper with those concaves… http://www.swaylocks.com/resources/Detailed/397.html
For me it boils down to this: with a multi-fin board you ride the board…with a single fin you ride the wave… http://www.swaylocks.com/resources/Detailed/397.html
For me it boils down to this: with a multi-fin board you ride the > board…with a single fin you ride the wave… So True!!! I guess i still ride the boards more then the waves?? since i only ride longboards in the summer anymore. I like your quote Paul… It’s so true when you really think about it…
I still surf from time to time, and have gotten so good at it that I don’t need a specific type of board to do it with anymore. Single, twin, tri or bi. Oh, when youre as good as me, everythings just becomes sooooo copesetic!
So True!!! I guess i still ride the boards more then the waves?? > since i only ride longboards in the summer anymore.>>> I like your quote Paul… It’s so true when you really think about it… …In my opinion it’s, not so much the board as it is the rider.Herb
…In my opinion it’s, not so much the board as it is the > rider.Herb …Here we go…another circular exchange of ideas… …you’re right, not the song, but the singer… …To me the skilled rider is the one who chooses the most appropriate equipment for the conditions, given their ability… …I’d love to see a multi-fin board rider just relax and hang in the pocket for a while…It seems to me that, in most situations (not just a perfect peeling barrel) that you gotta be pumpin’ monkey to keep up with the wave… …Maybe I’m wrong???.. Paul http://www.swaylocks.com/resources/Detailed/397.html
…Here we go…another circular exchange of ideas…>>> …you’re right, not the song, but the singer…>>> …To me the skilled rider is the one who chooses the most appropriate > equipment for the conditions, given their ability…>>> …I’d love to see a multi-fin board rider just relax and hang in the > pocket for a while…It seems to me that, in most situations (not just a > perfect peeling barrel) that you gotta be pumpin’ monkey to keep up with > the wave…>>> …Maybe I’m wrong???..>>> Paul Great string.We are now gettin to the heart of the matter.I kinda think that people thatt started surfing on modern thrusters generally have a hard time making the transition into longboarding.Shortboards call for a fairly wide low center of gravity stance and a pumping motion.Longboards generally call for a stance with the feet closer together and an upright posture.Instead of pumping the board you kinda turn it on the rail and trim the thing.One of the biggest problems I see is that a lot of guys just don’t stand far enough back on the tail.A friend of mine was having this problem so I put a piece of tape on the board and told him stay in that area to turn.It really helped him out…Interesting stuff…R.B.
I think this is also why fish are often a popular alternate to folks who are used to longboards. Wider w/more ability to plane and glide. I always think of the fish as having similar qualities as the front 1/2 of a longboard - that glide/speed/trim feeling, but they are super squirrly feeling at first when you are used to a LB. My first few rides on the fish I felt like it was a LB that could be turned from the front half. My observations only. Views on the quality to Eggs & mini LB’s I like the idea but in application they always seem too compromised. EJ>>> Great string.We are now gettin to the heart of the matter.I kinda think > that people thatt started surfing on modern thrusters generally have a > hard time making the transition into longboarding.Shortboards call for a > fairly wide low center of gravity stance and a pumping motion.Longboards > generally call for a stance with the feet closer together and an upright > posture.Instead of pumping the board you kinda turn it on the rail and > trim the thing.One of the biggest problems I see is that a lot of guys > just don’t stand far enough back on the tail.A friend of mine was having > this problem so I put a piece of tape on the board and told him stay in > that area to turn.It really helped him out…Interesting > stuff…R.B.