UDT Swim fins?? can i still buy a pair??

General Discussion
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Let the buyer beware

Cheap inferior versions of Duck Feet and UDT swim fins have been sold for many years (and still are); as in poor rubber: either too hard, too soft, poor memory, or crappy blends of different rubber compounds. UDT/Duck Feet with soft foot pockets are a waste of kicking power. They can also cause severe friction blisters because they bend in the wrong places. There’s no way to change that with neoprene padding.

What you want: a firm fit with foot pockets made of denser rubber. The blades should be composed of softer durometer compounds that increase in flex toward the tip. A solid, precise fit in the foot pocket combined with resilient blades produce the most efficient power transfer.

Do yourself a big favor and get the real thing from Greg Deets.

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MTB - I have the older straps on my Flips too. I also have Da Kine fin leashes for them. I usually hold them while I walk, if I’m on rocks, because you’re right about slipping. The nice thing about the leashes is that when its time to go in, I just pop the buckles & let them hang to go up the beach until I’m clear of the water.

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About to order some UDT’s from Prof Deets. (He’s been out of my size but I think is restocked). Assuming (always a mistake) about same fit as my Voit DuckFeet I took the Ducks to a dive shop looking for new booties. Have been using O’Neil split toe 3mm that have a definite sole (not socks) but softish. Tried on 3mm “soft sole” low top dive booties and they wouldn’t even ram into the fin pocket. Tried the “hard sole” ones just for fun and they were even bigger profile. So I’m guessing booties have wide variability in outside dimensions and thing to do is get flippers first and find booties to fit.

Question for all you KB and mat and body and boogie and paipo riders–ever try low top booties? MUCH easier on and off on the beach and maybe a nice thing in the tropics for reef protection well I mean feet protection in case unavoidable contact is made. However, in trying them on at dive shop was shocked I tell you shocked at how easily they came off. Wondering if that might be a problem in terms of “fin retention” if the whole bidness just slides off? I do tie fins on w/ regular old boot laces. Anybody tried low top booties and can give me feedback?

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I’ve had good results using the O’neil tropical reef booties. They are pretty thin neoprene and are designed to stay on in the surf. Although I haven’t done it, you can run the velcro strap over the fin strap to use like a fin leash.

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Hey, Dr. S -

Before you order the UDTs, I would definitely find the right size to order them in. If, for instance, you’re using 3mm split-toe boots, you won’t find that 1mm fin socks are all that much thinner and your size doesn’t get appreciably smaller… leastwise mine didn’t.

For instance- I wear a ( US size) 8 1/2 to 9 extra wide shoe or work boot. With fin socks or up to 3mm boots, I wear a size large ( US sizes 9-11 ) and if I was gonna try it with 5-7mm dead of winter boots I might go up yet another size. Bear in mind that the new UDTs are a harder foot pocket/softer blade mix, not the ( rather silly, in my opinion) soft foot pocket and stiff blade mix that most other fins use, so you can get away with a foot pocket that’s a skosh on the long side.

The executive summary on that is don’t fall in love with a particular fin size, go for what fits with the boots you are gonna use. The regular Duck Feet are sized close enough to the UDTs that you can use what size works for one for the other as well.

The really thin, low type fin socks - well, here’s the thing with them: what they do is prevent your fins chafing the skin on your feet (especially the tops of your toes) but not a whole lot more. If you get the variety with the heel cutout, well, they are real nice if your surfing is done mostly from a boat but if you are crossing a sandy beach to the water you’re very, very likely to get a few grains of sand in there and the term ‘dermabrasion’ comes to mind in a big way. The ones I have do have a velcro bit that goes around the fin strap, so things stay together a little better.

For general use, what I like is a harder sole, split toe boot like you already have with ankle and boot-top Velcro, 3mm or so thick. It’s not like your feet are gonna be too hot and you can save a more worn-out pair with a few holes on the top for real warm water.

They will protect your feet some, the velcro at the ankle plus the split toe helps if you’re crossing sand or especially rock beaches: they don’t slip sideways or spin out on a slope and make you fall on your @ss on the cobblestones. And I am here to tell ya, that hurts.

You cannot make a 1mm boot that’s non-stretchy enough to give you decent hold on a sloping cobblestone beach. Like, say, rock climbing shoes, you want a tight-ish and positive fit, 'cos otherwise it’s busted @ss time, sooner or later.

Now, one more thing - get some honest to gawd fin tethers. They are cheap, they work well, more comfortable and ya don’t have to try tying them in the shorepound. The kind with a thick, padded, velcro closure ankle strap and a relatively light , about 3/8" wide nylon strap loop that goes around the fin strap has been good to me, you can put 'em on easy in the water, etc.

that help any? Be happy to answer any questions.

doc…

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by the way - most places I tried to get udt fins were out of them in L and XL sizes. Most sell around the $70.00 mark.

I got the all black type at www.marine-rescue.com for $62 or $64 + shipping.

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Y’know, it’s funny, because I know those guys at Marine Rescue quite well. Fair prices and good delivery.

doc…

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Funny thing Doc, Just went to the boot lace tie thing as wide velcro fin tethers only used ah, not that long and the velcro was totally failing. Worthless. One day thought I was being bumped by small shark or seal and checked to see if my foot was still there and found it was th ankle strap of the tether flapping against my leg.HAH!

Good advice about get the boots first. Nice to know not much dif between 1 and 3 mil for fit. The one’s I was trying on all had squared off, fairly ridgid soles, one much harder almost like a regular shoe. Could be good call for leverage in hard foot pocket.

My big concern was really about the fact that the low tops slipped off my feet so easily I fear becoming barefoot after the first good smack-down tumble 'round I get. :wink: With the laces you can really bolt 'em to yer feets!

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Hey, Dr. S,

Right, if the velcro dies, the tethers are definitely worthless. But they are cheap.

The boots- if the hard sole laps up and around the sole of your foot, that affects things quite a bit, less so if the sole and the edges of your feet are more or less in the same place. Up here, in cold water, I’ve found that anything too tight, fins, boots or the combination - that makes for cold feet and in very cold water that gets a little dangerous.

I got disenchanted with the thin, low cut neoprene fin sock-type deals not too far from 9N78W in the Golfo de Chiriqui- those cobblestone rocks thereabouts are either really good traction ( in which case the fin socks slip sideways on your foot and you go down hard, and bouncing my bony old butt off basalt isn’t a pleasant experience) or else they get a little slick coating from algae in which case you need to move crabwise, both feet and one arm with careful placement of all. Putting my fins on while high and dry was definitely not an option.

Dunno, if you have those 3mm split-toes that work with your Duck Feet, and if they are in anything close to decent shape, I’d use those rather than looking for new ones… I found that a little extra thickness certainly didn’t hurt, and the higher boot helped a lot with sand getting in and so on. The slightly harder sole on a typical split-toe didn’t seem to do much one way or another, more like protection getting in and out.

doc…

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yea I thought their service and prices and all that were excellent – just didn’t want to seem to plug too much.

Rgds,

j

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Doc, always grateful for and impressed by your detailed and clear answers/information. Funny you should mention Chiriqui as I may be headed that way soonish, maybe to stay awhile…we’ll see… a bit complicated at the mo’. I think you’ve resold me on the high tops. Mine are rags; seams still good but that’s really the only part intact.

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I’ve found that a little maintinence makes the velcro fin tethers last a lot longer…I’ve had two pairs in maybe the last 10 years. Rinse them well and blast out any sand and remove any accumulated threads after every use, preferably when you do the same for your other equipment. My second velcro pair just ate dog dirt and started doing the dangle, most unsettling, so I’ll be in the market myself.

I’ve never tried the commercial fin ties that use string and a draw cord deal but they look nifty.

Doc, don’t split toe booties cause irritation in the split? Sounds uncomfortable to me but I haven’t tried it.

As to the comments about rock dancing in fins, well, that’s where smaller (inc. bodyboard) fins can help. I just spent some time in waves at a surprise beach break, very shallow water on morning tides, and a longer fin would have destroyed my feet as we seldom swam in deep water (2 of us, mostly bodysurfing). Of couse the situation meant we didn’t really need much power. Maybe a quiver of fins, at least two pair, is a way to go.

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Oh yeah, they’re great - granted, the owner ( Rian Wilkinson - and that’s how he spells it) is a friend of mine, but my policy is that if a place gives you good service and good prices, people ought to know about it. You didn’t have any problems getting them shipped to Panama?

And, gents, if I may add a couple replies to this:

Dr. S, I think you’ll like Chiriqui. I can go on for pages and pages on how much and why I like Panama. And, for a little change of pace from Chiriqui you can always head north to Bocas for a bit. Both sides, the waves, the sunsets, the fishing, the diving…

Unless you have a major thing for O’Neill’s, just about any of the better split-toe boots will work just fine. My own are some Rip Curls I salvaged from a surf camp junk box. There may well be some sales going too, out your way around now.

Our friend j. can fill you in on Panama better than I can, of course.

Nels, I’ve never had any ‘twixt the toes’ problems with the split toe fins, basicly what’s nicest about 'em is how you don’t slip sideways on them the way you can with a one-piece toe box arrangement.

I have found that the thin teeth on a cheap plastic comb work very nicely for getting accumulated smeg out of Velcro, or the clip-on ‘depth of cut’ gizmos for a hair/beard trimmer. I haven’t seen or tried the drawstring-type tethers, I’d be a little leery about 'em just for the same reason as I like the Velcro type: you can get the thing undone in a hurry if you have to. My own are the Destination Surf brand, but I think they do private label stuff for a lot of companies too.

Uhmm- I haven’t had any problems with big fins in shallow water, more along the lines of just getting sand in my boots and such. The fun part comes in crossing the beach ( or the pebbles) carrying your fins, your board, leash not done up yet, etc. That can get a skosh dicey…

doc…

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interesting thread going to check out UDTs for the summer . . .

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The split toe doesnt really squiggy way between your toes like rubbah’slippa’s do. That would probably rash you. all I’ve found w/ them is the positive Doc mentioned of better footing on land where it counts. Ever crawl,hop,walk across slick volcanic boulders on your way in/out of the water?

Just bought tickets to hit Panama in June. Ya-Hoooooie. Check it out. sniff the air, feel the vibe, surf the surf. Try to find a low cost house or some buildable dirt to buy. Maybe drop out and join the human race (verses the rat race)…Have gotten some good tips from J. Whisht I’d a thought of this a few years ago before the prices started to rocket. Oh, well, the good hunter is never deterred…

Trying to stuff a little Spanish into my boggy, old noggin before we go. OUCH! Sort of day late etc but its a start. I know lot of peeps there have some English but sooooo much nicer if you speak the local when you go. Hard to believe I’ve been so lazy as to live in Calif most of my life and never learned any. Mea culpa!!!

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Quote:

Doc mentioned of better footing on land where it counts. Ever crawl,hop,walk across slick volcanic boulders on your way in/out of the water?

I grew up riding cobblestone point surf, so know well the pitfalls. It took some time to get used to beach breaks, the sand and grit. For the point surf I would put the fins on in the water - a pain but not the hassle like trying to wade out over the slick rocks. This was before fin tethers though, and also sometimes dicy if the surf was big or steady. I guess in those years we were more accustomed to inconvenience or something. Even today I usually take the fins off and let them clean out once I make it to the surfline.

Quote:

Hard to believe I’ve been so lazy as to live in Calif most of my life and never learned any. Mea culpa!!!

I was helping homeschool and 8th grade neice here in Southern California this past Fall. I was talking to the supervising teacher for the program one morning, asking about the language part of the curriculum. When I was a kid we started Spanish in 6th grade and had it in 7th and 8th as well. Now any language is an 8th grade elective, and only one of the three junior high schools even offers Spanish…the one in the uppity rich and psuedo-rich part of town. Guess they need it most- not for work but to communicate with the servants. The working class part of town is apparently busy learning how to make change on computerized cash registers. What is Spanish for “double-soy latte”? Esta “Bacho” amigos!

On a brighter note, learning some Spanish at a more advanced age will prove to be much easier than you expect. You may be surprised to find you at least know how to pronounce the words, an accumulated wealth of knowledge for those of us who live our lives in border states which once had Spanish influences. Beyond that having a true interest in the subject and a lack of self-consciousness when practicing makes the experience much less intimidating…and having a real, vibrant reason for learning just magnifies it.

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Just been learning that literally thousands of words are the same or nearly so in Spanish and English. And I am 1/4 Spanish so maybe that will help w/ genetic memory…

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Well, one thing about looking at houses in June in Panama - you’ll know real fast if the roof leaks. In the afternoon the heavens open, through evening. But in the morning, early, when the stars are out, wow…

Friends of mine just bought and are building in the Bocas area…it’s not that pricy, compared to anywhere in Los Estados Unidos. Living like a human rather than a gringo is pretty inexpensive. The fish, the rum, rice, beer, fruit and veg … they come from the country and they’re inexpensive and good. Drive from Panama City to David and you see everything from cattle ranches to rice paddies, sugar cane and corn.

The coffee is as good as any anywhere, if you like coffee as much as I do. Two main brands, if you like a dark roast, Cafe Dorado, if you don’t the other kind is good…

A quick ‘brushing up on your Spanish’ tip -

See, I find that I can’t hear so hot, but I can read pretty well. So I watched a lot of movies and TV in English with Spanish subtitles. It helps. Not everybody has some English, but at least attempting Spanish will get you some pity if nothing else. They’re kind people there…and a good thing for me that they are, as I have absolutely no gift for languages whatsoever.

Have fun… I miss the place, I really do.

doc…

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Doc, as you may well be aware, Panama’s spanish has more Americanisms than any other spanish-speaking country. Even though you study spanish – you may have some difficulty in understanding it here – it’s really the slangiest , slurriest spanish there is - and heavily peppered with english word. “Pasa quada” (gimme $0.25) “shoteame” (shout me up - look me up) “Oye Chief” (hey chief… everyone you don’t know is Chief). Like a Statesider listening to a Queenlander (Ozzy) or someone from Yorkshire (christ I certainly don’t understand some of those accents from England)

English although not as widely spoken as it once was (because nationistic idiots in gov’t) is being pushed again. Further, Bocas Del Toro province was largely an english-speaking province - albeit a Caribbean form of it (like Bajun and Jamaican).

'Tonce!

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You guys are getting me all foamy at the mouth. Ready to go!!!