Quote:
just thought i d bring this back to remind some
this preceed any thing whith R
OR FIREWIRE for that mater
Yeah!!!
yeah i read an article in a kiwi mag attributing parabolic rails to matt biolas
where do these guys get off
bert your da man
WELL isint it amazing a tru design&costruction thread
and they all lost there tongue
huie
Hey Huie , with respect to all concerned, can you or any of the shaper surfers of the alternate way to build boards give a layman the benifits of the the epoxy way to build boards over the old system, on how they might surf better, I don’t think the young Burrow has any baring on it at this stage, he’s been expected to win a world title for a while now, nor do I think the firewires are gonna make a major change to the industry, I’m just genuinely interested in what you guys , as normal surfers think the benefits are, cheers H.
hey harry i cant speak for the other guys
but i can build to the same weight as a lightweight poly
and its pretty much unbreakable and infinitey repairable witout adding weight or sacfricing performance
ive fully redecked boards and they have come out lighter??
this is just for sandwich boards mind you
cant speak for the plain polysytrene ones
the trick is getting them to flex
a lot of the sandwich boards are very stiff
the older surftechs were a very good example of stif epoxy boards
im only an begginer shaper
but i know about the sandwich construction
yeah with your skills and knowledge you would kill it if you could do a few sandwich boards on the side
i know they would be great
harry
as you know i only do groms boardsthe ones i done last year were spanish cedar decks
corecel bottoms the little bugers say there flying but its hard to belive kids whose minds are like all over the place
theyev got a couple of poly boards there f#ucked
the comp boards are like new the ways __that you &i know so well has been f#ked whith so badly
this may be the only way out for small boutiqe shaper
theres so much you can do whith this tech & so many materials you can use so many ways to use it
as for opionions on performance theres plenty guys on here should fill you in
huie
Huie and Silly, I know you guys are on it and to the the other guys, although I have in the past been a bit of a smart arse, I’m asking about performance, and make no mistake, with you two guys help I’m going to have a go at the new, I just want to hear from some one out there, experienced bugger, that would give me a minute, that could surf at least as good as me, why , what’s the benefits, cause from the guys around me, giving me a second as I try to talk to them about sways, or stuff I’m trying to learn, or stuff I’ve done, the’re busy, I’m not, and as far as I can see in this industry, quality is it, they are doing some epoxy next door, and as I said I get limited minutes, but as far as I can tell, it’s about either bits and pieces or keeping someone happy, I’m open and I said some time before 1 out 2 out of a thousand boards I’ve had was electric,[epoxy] I’m supposed to explain about a little fin, H.
hey harry i think josh is here somwere
he should come in here
nor do I think the firewires are gonna make a major change to the industry, I’m just genuinely interested in what you guys , as normal surfers think the benefits are, cheers H.
Here’s a thought: anything process that adds labor increases the likelihood of being done where the labor is cheaper.
well thats funny cuz surftech already did
wrt firewire i cant say but i hear they are using urethane foam for the skins
i believe this would negate a lot of the performance benefits as its is flexible and breaks down easily
the type of material you want is something like corecell or wood
if i could get huie to build one my way
john when id do get over there we can do the rounds of the composite suppliers
and youll be away
hopefully ill have a nice board for you try as well
but usually the good one i build are snatched
im no where near your ability as a surfer or shaper for that matter
but i surf pretty well for a 36 year old
if you can builld one that has flex they the boards are brighter and faster off the top
rider feedback so far is that cuttbacks are not the same on the stiffer boards
the flexier one are good though
but really performance benefits seem to be more responsive in s turns
and more projection off the top
watching my young grommet out there in 1 foot mush
he really does surf faster then anyone in the water
he reckons its the board
but then he says its not so good on cutbacks
could be the nose width on that tone though
so theres lots to figure out
and i guess most of that has to with shape
Hey Paul,
I think that the statement in regards PU breaking down w repeated flexural cycles is perhaps a bit of a broad brush stroke; yes, the PU formulations traditionally used in surfboard blanks a la Clark and Walker exhibited this characteristic, but this may not be the case with different polyols or isocyanates…and it’s an effect that may be minimized through increased density. Certainly though, it’s rare that you see mention of HD PU foams having positive structural application in composites; seems the pros go w d-cell, c-cell or rohacell in almost all marine applications…
Hell; people are using all kinds of different core materials to suit different purposes. There more than a few companies strategically replacing wood cores in their snowboards with either aramid (palmer) or aluminum (burton) based honeycombs for enhanced performance and weight savings at minimal decreases in durability. I still occasionally ride an old Morrow I have from 1997; still has pop and life, despite having a corecell core and suffering years of abuse from my 195lb; something to be said for the filament winding carbon application they were using WAY back in the day.
I think it’s all about horses for courses; Balsa is great, but has some fairly significant drawbacks. Paulownia is alot like balsa, but the weight savings aren’t as easily achieved despite better resistance to splintering and water intrusion. Cedar is fine too, but again; weight. Bamboo veneers; also nice; still kinda heavy compared to balsa if not used properly, and without careful planning can give a very stiff structure.
Allan; you’re going in a good direction; you’ve already got the shaping thing sorted out; application of prior knowledge and good feedback from capable surfers, with an open mind to new technology and a willingness to distance yourself from the typical store-rack machine shaped PU/PE’s is the insurance that you ought to be able to continue to practice your craft for a discerning clientele for years to come. Hess had shaped a ton of boards before he got on to the wood thing, so he knew what it took to make it work…and then swapped materials to positive effect. It’s a strategy that people are just going to have to continue to apply to succeed.
When one considers surfers and waves; how different people’s approaches and styles are; how a given break changes with a different tide, a different swell intensity and direction…let’s put it this way; when it’s windy, it’s windy; people are going windsurfing (or at least they used to 
) the boards were RARELY designed with a narrow performance margin; there’s no wonder that the production shapes took over. I just don’t see it happening to surfing in the same way; if your bread and butter was on the “single board quiver” intermediate, then yeah…you gotta rethink things a bit, but the “three+ board quiver” surfer is gonna be a bit more discerning. Places like Moonlight and Waterman’s ain’t going anywhere. Production will eventually get going for custom composites. Rob Mulder still does alright making high end windsurfing race boards for the world cup guys; he supplements with other composite endeavors, but it’s still an income for him. People just gotta adapt. Personally, I’m really looking forward to the future…and buying my boards at Costco isn’t going to be a part of it.
i must be bored or something today…
paul in relation to firewire using urathane skins
it might be pmi polymethacrylimide its white
&f##ken hard to get
huie
any supposed new technology that is more labour intensive,to achieve similar performance,is usualy a recycled older technology! Vaccum bagging is old tech,infusion is the newer version of VBT…fire wire is very expensive old tech!
I thought the whole idea of technology was to improve performance,and cut costs by reducing labour content!?? Thereby shortciruiting made in Asia, with a superior product at a competitive price,made locally??
At present I have found that glassing PU blanks (that have a 4 ply harwood stringer to stiffen the spine of the bd) in Epoxy gives an extremely strong,rigid ,memory flex is better than polyester,and as the bds age the bd gets stronger! I have a 20 yr old bd which was my magic bd for nearly 15 years in hossegor ,made with a clarke blank and glassed in 4 oz,everybody who comes to my factory is blown a way as the bottom is rock solid!
The world of Nano technology is upon us and it looks like in the next couple of years it will replace all current technology’s,by allowing the replacement of PVC foams,fibreglass,and the probability of being able to make custom bds with sophisticated blanks with different stringer/flex patterns and coat them with nano impregnated epoxxy resins --the $'s goes into the shape/blank,and then finished with a coat of…resin,so the labour is reduced to a minimum!!! these process’s are now being developed world wide by the composite industry,and the 1st bd I made was way too lite,glassed in 2 oz as strong as 2x 4 oz but weighed only 5 lb,with a PU blank I have had to put another layer of 6 oz on the deck to get it to 6 lb!
this Tech direction is exciting as it looks like the future could be shaping a custom ,dip it in the NCT epoxy,and surf! perhaps a dream,but so far all the indications are pointing us down this road!
Polywhatthehellimide? Isn’t that made by Yanks with computers? LOL!!!
there you are harry
all you got to do is keep on shaping
maurice i am to old no more tech lol
janklow yea its a mouthfull & of not much use
You mean you can’t do it.
huie knows his composite shit more then most on this site
maurice its not the technology
its the technique
i could build a board 20 times in composite
all the same materials and dimensions
and everyone could be made to surf different
all down to technique
hi Maurice, with all due respect (I’m just a guy here, shaping a few in my garage and hanging out with some of the Sways guys drinking beer) you have alluded to vac bagging as old tech, etc. Yeah, so, what are you up to? Contribute please.
Heya huie,
Been getting any waves mate? Had a few goodies down around the cabba area lately. Not too crowded either… i think all the holiday makers are outsky now.
Firewire uses corecell, but then paint it, TL2 use the PMI (rohacell), arguably the best performing HD foam available…Just trying to track some down to try.
Talked to scott at atl he might be able to track some down through his buddies.
Shan