I was introduced to Hank Johns of Graphite Masters at Surf Expo and he was kind enough to give me a few yards of Vector Net fabric. It’s 75 degree bias black kevlar strands. I used it instead of a second layer of 4 oz e glass. So this board has the Vector net with a layer of 4 oz e over it. Resin Research Epoxy over US Blanks Red PU Blank. I guess this is the stuff Mayhem uses for tail reinforcement and a bunch of the boards at the show were using it more prominently. (Full decks, bottoms). Have no idea of the effectiveness but it was fun and easy enough to lam. Will give it a go in Mexico next week…
[img_assist|nid=1072868|title=Vector Net 1|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=255|height=192][img_assist|nid=1072869|title=Vector Net 2|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=256|height=194][img_assist|nid=1072870|title=Vector Net 3|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=258|height=195][img_assist|nid=1072871|title=Vector Net 4|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=261|height=197]
Hey Jamie looks interesting I’m looking forward to read about your experience with the product. Is the weave flat, any problems cutting to shape, laminating, bubbles, keeping it in place, etc.?
Had only a few minutes to look but checked out your blog, nice work on the boards and workshop!
Just knowing kevlar’s properties it seems it would be better served on the bottom of the board where the tensile stresses are the highest. By replacing a layer of E glass with this netting on the deck, the board is going to have an overall lower compressive strength and more flex overall, especially with the lack of fibers. Most board snaps are caused by compressive forces, so this doesn’t seem like an ideal product for this application?
What was Hank Johns reasoning for recommending it as a replacement deck layer?
I heard conflicting theories from various people about where it would work best. Most of the boards at the show I saw had it on top and as a replacement for a layer of glass. Hank mentioned Biolos trying it on the bottom on Kolohe Andino’s next quiver.
Looking at the stuff, I could see the concern about lower compressive strength/more flex as the diagonal kevlar fibers are held together by a very thin web of clear fibers. I was conflicted on what to try first and settled on the top route since I’d seen a bunch of boards that had done so and the guys who use the material said that’s what I should do.
As far as working with the material. No problem. I was advised by both Hank and guys who use it to get a fresh pair of sharp scissors and use them only on this material. So $17 for stainless super sharp scissors and no problems cutting. Draped and absorbed the resin fine. This is glass job #30 for me so I’m no pro, but I had no problems.
Also the stuff is pretty inexpensive. Something like $4 a yard?
I always get pretty deep craters on the rails right in front of my traction pad (E and S glass), so we’ll see if this improves matters over regular E or S glass.
Not the easiest stuff in the world to work with, “Vector Net’s” aramid fibers act like capillaries draining resin through them with the help of gravity and need to be cheater coated at the right time; furthermore a substantial read develops over the black fibers that make the board more difficult to sand, and sanding through fluffs the aramid. Still with practice and tips you can build a board less prone to breakage because the load is distributed over a different axis; also this axis change adds a bit of ‘spring-back’ to the board which can enhance the board’s performance.
Thanks, Huie. I don’t do Vac yet. Still trying to get proficient at hand lamination. Hank said Vac is definitely the best way, but regular hand lam works OK too. Sanding tomorrow so we’ll see how it goes…
Not the easiest stuff in the world to work with, “Vector Net’s” aramid
fibers act like capillaries draining resin through them with the help of
gravity and need to be cheater coated at the right time; furthermore a
substantial read develops over the black fibers that make the board more
difficult to sand, and sanding through fluffs the aramid. Still with
practice and tips you can build a board less prone to breakage because
the load is distributed over a different axis; also this axis change
adds a bit of ‘spring-back’ to the board which can enhance the board’s
performance.
Thanks GR - This is some nice straight ahead info… And, in my opinion, good news at that.
Jamie, thanks for the feedback. Going back and reading my post it sounds very dismissive of this material, but that wasn’t my intent at all.
I just like to understand why something is a viable alternative, there’s a lot of materials out there and some of them are used purely for aesthetics but sold as being increased performance (texalium comes to mind).
I’m fully in the camp of try something and see how it rides. All the theory and techno-speak in the world is pointless unless a board is made and ridden to see how it performs. Cudos for putting the time/effort/money into just trying something different to see how it works.
Post a ride report once you have it done and get a few sessions on it, and also how the sanding process works out.
Agreed. Most boards that snap in half break from the deck, downward. So, increasing tensile strength on the bottom would seem to be the obvious application. A material that has low compression strength seems an unlikely candidate for a deck lam, for more than one reason.
Kudos to Jamie for taking the risk on this, to invest all that time shaping a blank and then glassing with an unknown (to most) material and using only 4 ounce on a deck certainly takes balls. Although, I have to admit I find that stuff really displeasing to the eye, is it only made in black?
A slightly different take than SammyA,
I agree with SammyA that boards break from compression failure on one side.
That is because fiberglass has huge tensile strength, but since it is so thin, it fails easily in compression. The first step in compression failure is a wrinkling of the skin.
Take a sheet of paper laying flat on a table. Push the two ends toward each other. it wrinkles. If it were a surfboard skin, those wrinkles would be areas of delamination. To keep a board skin from wrinkling, give it greater compression strength. Either by making it thicker or attaching it better to the foam core.
To thicken the skin, use either d-cell or wood skins, To attach it better to the core, and a more flexible layer between the fiberglass and foam. Nylon 6,6 is my choice for this. It’s all in the Cerex thread locked down in Errors and Bugs.
As for Vector net, Technora fibers have much better impact strength than fiberglass, but not much else. It will help reinforce the skin against impact and dings, but not much else. It won’t keep the board from snapping. It won’t prevent pressure dents. It is going to act like ripstop fabric in outdoor clothing.
My motivation to try this was pretty innocent. I was asking around at the show what people thought of the rail reinforcement stuff (uni carbon, skinz, etc.) because I’d heard mixed opinions. When I met Hank, the show was ending and he told me, “here, try this stuff, I don’t want to take it home on the plane”. He relayed that people were having success with it, and just as important, it’s not expensive like carbon. I had a shaped blank at home waiting to get glassed so I figured I’d give it a shot. As for putting it on the top, there was a boardbuilder at the show (I forget the name) who had a bunch of boards on display and he said he was doing the decks as I did (vector under single 4 oz e). Although he was vac-bagging it. I mentioned the idea of doing it on the bottom instead, and he was like “hmm, why would you do that?” He mentioned that he uses hundreds of yards of Vector net a year. So I figured I’d give it a shot the way he did it first. I’ve got enough left to do another board so maybe next time I’ll do the bottom.
I just finished sanding the board. (100,150,220). A few fuzzys on the rail toward the nose and a few other select places on the rail but otherwise it wasn’t much harder than a regular sand job. I spot coated the fuzzys and I’ll finish up the whole thing with 320 later.
You see things like this a lot in the surfboard market where material properties are secondary to aesthetics and marketing.
My shaper started doing those dumb-ass tail patches and I asked him what problem they solved and why he was using them as they are pretty much pointless and actually stiffen up the very part of the board where you want more flex. He admitted to me that “it’s what sells”, and acknowledged that they served no functional purpose in his glass schedules. He’d never had a problem with rail crushes in that section of the board, it’s just boards with rail patches sold better.
So just because someone else is doing something it’s good to ask why and understand their reasoning behind it.
This is no way aimed at you specifically, just more of an overall observation of the surfboard market in general.
I agree. The general consensus was that the tail-patches really are aesthetic. But I do have a significant rail crater problem right in front of my tail pads and I was looking for a solution (even with double 4S and epoxy). That’s why I asked Hank what he thought because I figured he’d know better than most. Hank actually said try the bottom because of the arguments outlined above (adding some spring/strength) but that many people were trying the top. FWIW Foam EZ markets Vector Net for tail patches and that’s where Mayhem uses it.
Anyway, headed to Mexico next week so I’ll give it a whirl…