i just re-watched the surfer journals little thingy on george greenough. although it focused on his film making they also spoke a little about his choice of surf vehicle…kneeboard (when the waves were good), wind surfer and primarily, almost exclusively now an air mat. i have been riding my air mat more and more these days and i can see why george is such a firm believer in them (i won’t go into that though) – what was most amazing was how he was surfing his velo and other deep hulled flexible kneeboards. my question is this…i have heard that a stand-up surfboard with the same elements (deep hull small and most importantly very flexible) is not feasible. why? has anyone ever tried? seems like it would be one hell of a ride in good conditions. could you shape a surfboard with a deep hull, spoon out the entire deck, glass it with a light volan for better flex and put a flexible fin on it? just curious about people thoughts. it seems like it might work, but i don’t know.
i just re-watched the surfer journals little thingy on george greenough. > although it focused on his film making they also spoke a little about his > choice of surf vehicle…kneeboard (when the waves were good), wind surfer > and primarily, almost exclusively now an air mat. i have been riding my > air mat more and more these days and i can see why george is such a firm > believer in them (i won’t go into that though) – what was most amazing > was how he was surfing his velo and other deep hulled flexible kneeboards. > my question is this…i have heard that a stand-up surfboard with the same > elements (deep hull small and most importantly very flexible) is not > feasible. why? has anyone ever tried? seems like it would be one hell of a > ride in good conditions. could you shape a surfboard with a deep hull, > spoon out the entire deck, glass it with a light volan for better flex and > put a flexible fin on it? just curious about people thoughts. it seems > like it might work, but i don’t know. Tim: I know-the idea of a stand-up board like velo sounds bitchin’,but so far unobtainable with foam/glass.It,s been attempted, but the performance of board is less than desireable.Paul Gross and I have discussed this topic many,many times.(I hope he sees this thread and replies).He has made displacement hull stubbies with a spooned deck- they just don,t work like you think they would or should(properties of physics and stuff).The pool guy has a “no deck” board built by Tim Boler, called the bottom half, that is a ripper.We have thought about doing the stand up velo out of carbon(like his edge boards)but then the flex properties wouldnn’t be right.We’ve done flex tails in the past that are great to ride but a bitch to paddle.Actually PG,the pool guy and myself are taking another look at the flex tail idea and see if we can’t improve upon it.It sure seems to me it is feasible to make this board you speak of- it’s just a matter of finding the right materials to make it with.Surf tech perhaps?Who knows, Paul aand George might be working on this very concept as we speak!
Haven’t seen exactly the type of board you refer to but have seen glass spoon decks by Jeff Ho out of Santa Monica, CA in the 70’s. A few guys at Malibu and environs (Greg Liddle, Scott Lewis, others?) played around with flex tails although the decks remained foam. The boards would be glassed on the bottom first, then the tail was sanded out down to the glass (in a variety of patterns as I recall) then the deck was glassed with multiple layers at the flex area of the tail. Liddle also had a prototype that featured deep grooves routed into the deck which were then filled with silicone sealant. The grooves followed a calculated pattern which determined how and where the tail flexed. Anyone remember the “Tinkler Tail?” It had counter sunk knobs in the deck that controlled the position of stiffener rods that extended into a flex tail. Another guy in Santa Monica had a mechanically hinged swallow tail that was connected via hardware to a trailing flap on the fin so that as one side of the tail lifted, the fin flap changed direction. In soft waves, it turned great - in the tube, water sucking up the face lifted the tail segment, changed the flap direction and disaster ensued…
HI John just curious did you surf Malibu area in 70,s,Scott and I surfed alot together. Also Andy Davis, Liddles glasser,has the silicone flextail board.All the flextails I had were hard to maintain. Also Marty Peach from Malibu just made one at Scott Anderson glassed it Goes good at malibu saw him get some good ones at 2nd early this summer. How do you know all this stuff? Your truly a Swayloholic. KP.
Kirk - Well, I tried to surf at Malibu in the 70’s. Scott was always impressive and I remember watching him on numerous occasions at 3rd point and elsewhere. My few residual brain cells occasionally fire at will bringing back vague memories of the good old days.
Wierd timing…I just came across this past june’s (2001) issue of Longboard magazine - laying around in a local shop (this very sunday!) - and happened upon an article, “Benders: the story of surfboards with a flex factor”, by Mark Fragale. I urge all of you interested in this thread to try to get ahold of this issue.(vol 9, number 3). Good article! T.
Wierd timing…I just came across this past june’s (2001) issue of > Longboard magazine - laying around in a local shop (this very sunday!) - > and happened upon an article, “Benders: the story of surfboards with > a flex factor”, by Mark Fragale. I urge all of you interested in this > thread to try to get ahold of this issue.(vol 9, number 3). Good article! > T. about five,six years ago I visited a shop in seal beach and asked the owner why he didn’t make longboard spoons anymore.His reply was that they weren’t that great,plus they always break in the nose area.I thought that to be rather odd since I have had several spoons none of which ever broke. Anyway, didn’t think much about it until the bender article came out followed up by the ad campaign touting the greatness of the “original” bender.I laugh for a couple of reasons:1…“I won’t build another one of those boards again…” and 2.“original”???the original came from several miles up the coast.Go figure…
“Penda-flex” from Pt. Loma area in San Diego. Where are those waves that were supposed to hit?!
“Penda-flex” from Pt. Loma area in San Diego. Where are those > waves that were supposed to hit?! John: I am wondering the same thing.Expected to ride some screamers today and all we have is junky, 1’ wind slop.Nice weather out though.Have the morning offshores started up there yet? Matt
Kirk - Well, I tried to surf at Malibu in the 70’s. Scott was always > impressive and I remember watching him on numerous occasions at 3rd point > and elsewhere. My few residual brain cells occasionally fire at will > bringing back vague memories of the good old days. I met a guy in Bali (1979/1980) named Mitchel Ray; he made flex tailed guns for the ozies. Never seen anything like it before , or since.
about five,six years ago I visited a shop in seal beach and asked the > owner why he didn’t make longboard spoons anymore.His reply was that they > weren’t that great,plus they always break in the nose area.I thought that > to be rather odd since I have had several spoons none of which ever broke. > Anyway, didn’t think much about it until the bender article came out > followed up by the ad campaign touting the greatness of the > “original” bender.I laugh for a couple of reasons:1…“I > won’t build another one of those boards again…” and > 2.“original”???the original came from several miles up the > coast.Go figure… Before closing the Surfboards Hawaii factory at the old La Paloma theater in Encinitas, John Price had a loft full of Model "A"s that had snapped at the step. He would retrieve them from the unhappy customers and hide them up stairs, not wanting the public to ever see them again. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
Matt - I’ve been trying to get that new “LOLA” thing dialed on surfline. It looks pretty damn good - “Stormsurf.com” has something similar but “LOLA” has the zoom feature that allows one to really see how the swell will hit little pockets and corners. Thursday looks to be the day up here and no, the offshores haven’t started yet. They usually do though right about this time of year. Keep me posted on when you might be up this way - we should try and hook up - maybe catch a few waves?
Before closing the Surfboards Hawaii factory at the old La Paloma theater > in Encinitas, John Price had a loft full of Model "A"s that had > snapped at the step. He would retrieve them from the unhappy customers and > hide them up stairs, not wanting the public to ever see them again. Jim, I’m usually with “Edgar” a couple of day’s each week. He recently told me you refuse to do a step deck. Is this the reason why ?
Jim: Did the extreme thinning and foiling used in the Model A end up causing twists in the board over time? I’ve got a 9’7" Model A that is sporting pronounced twist in the nose. Is there any hope that with some heat and weight I can straighten some of this out?>>> Before closing the Surfboards Hawaii factory at the old La Paloma theater > in Encinitas, John Price had a loft full of Model "A"s that had > snapped at the step. He would retrieve them from the unhappy customers and > hide them up stairs, not wanting the public to ever see them again.
Matt - Please allow me to correct my previous answer regarding offshores. As of this morning (9/26/01) the offshores have officially started! For the first time in quite awhile we have clear, warm and offshore conditions. The waves have yet to appear with any size although the forecast is still showing signs of hope. I hear Santa Cruz has been getting it already.
Matt - Please allow me to correct my previous answer regarding offshores. > As of this morning (9/26/01) the offshores have officially started! For > the first time in quite awhile we have clear, warm and offshore > conditions. The waves have yet to appear with any size although the > forecast is still showing signs of hope. I hear Santa Cruz has been > getting it already. John: Yeah, I figured they should be starting soon.Today the swell started to show in our area-not great but sure had the classic fall conditions.(my area being somewhere between where you are at and l.a.county Hope you get a few! Matt
I’m usually with “Edgar” a couple of day’s each week. He > recently told me you refuse to do a step deck. Is this the reason why ? I think Mr. Logee is pulling your leg, I do step decks, but don’t let the step go out to the rail line. It looks crude with the rail line having a sudden change in foil. I always try to use enough wood so that it won’t snap at the step, so far so good! http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
Jim:>>> Did the extreme thinning and foiling used in the Model A end up causing > twists in the board over time? I’ve got a 9’7" Model A that is > sporting pronounced twist in the nose. Is there any hope that with some > heat and weight I can straighten some of this out? Twist almost always comes from improper storage. Randy Wong at Channin’s has a set of twist removers, they are made from 2x2’s, on each set one piece is about 24" and the 2nd piece is about 36". At one end the 2 pieces are flushed up and put together with a really long carraige bolt. At the end of the 24" both pieces are drilled for another bolt. They are slipped over the nose and tail, with the extention ends in opposite directions. Tighten up the bolts to snug and then hang a bucket of sand from from each of the long arms. With the weight out from the board, the twist will slowly be taken out. It is a matter of checking the board from time to time to see when it is back to normal. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
I think Mr. Logee is pulling your leg, I do step decks, but don’t let the > step go out to the rail line. It looks crude with the rail line having a > sudden change in foil. I always try to use enough wood so that it won’t > snap at the step, so far so good! Jim, Those steps aren
t only crude looking... theyre often nothing less than a wide, inadvertantly shaped, weak “hinges”.
Jim,>>> Those steps aren
t only crude looking... theyre often nothing less than a > wide, inadvertantly shaped, weak “hinges”. Sorry about that, what I meant to say was a weak “hinge”. I guess that I need to attend more S.A. meetings…