“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”
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…thanks for chiming in.
The first shop I know of that quietly went to China was RON JON.
You don’t need to say it, and if it wasn’t them I’d be surprised.
All the years I ran Surf N Wear in Santa Barbara, Jeff White always made it clear to me that the clothes paid the rent. But it didn’t stop me from carrying on the lineage of Owl Surfboards that he started next to Yater in Summerland. Jeff and his partner Brian blew their own foam and slept in the plugs with army blankets at night.
The issue we are talking about is both emotional and complex. On the one hand you have the moral issue, and on the other hand the question of what is legal and pragmatic in today’s times.
There are certainly many people that have come to the industry that made money elsewhere and have decided to employ business practices that are not agreeable to at least some of us. However it has to be said that there are plenty of long time respected shaper designers that chose to participate in making their designs widely available in the hopes that they might enjoy some return of investment for all the years they put into providing surfers joyful days of riding the equipment they created.
Perhaps ‘the beginning of the end’ was the inception of close tolerance blanks that Clark introduced with the original intention of saving shapers time while producing a higher strength to weight ratio. Even before that the shaping machines had been around for more than a decade without creating the fervor and controversy that is currently taking place. How many of us know fellow shapers that have decided to make their designs available to mass produceable entities only to find they made very little money for the distinction?
While some of us look at the new way of doing business as a form of prostitution, others embrace the opportunity to get their names out there in a quest to be counted among names that they apparntly desire to be in the company of. Some were seduced by the promise of 'making money while they slept" aka ‘passive income’. The lure of realizing royalties from world wide marketing while seeing their name in magazines and slick internet advertising has proven to attract many creative individuals appealing to their ego and hopefully, their wallets.
I can only speak for myself here. What I feel is that the intrinsic value of the experience has been desicated, while the appreciation for what many of us spent years learning to masterfully do, has been cheapened. As odd as it may sound, I wish close tolerance blanks and CNC machines had never happened. This doesn’t negate the merits of either, it is merely a statement of sentiment…of when a human endeavoring and sometimes making ‘magic’ for another person was exactly that: a magical experience between two willing and striving parties. We can look at CNC as a marvelous tool and laud its precision at doing a repetitious act with incredible accuracy…and the fact that Huie can state good luck with your cheap imports when there is a CNC on every corner. This issue isn’t about Chinese people not being allowed to make money…that’s utterly ridiclous…however don’t think for a minute that they wouldn’t be bitching and moaning and angry if **they were losing their jobs to **cheaper offshore labor. The shoe has to be looked at both ways.
There may be some comfort that some surfers will never stop interacting with the shaper of their choice. Some just crave the interaction, willingness and striving for a mutually beneficial end result. It has often been said that the thrill isn’t in how fast you can get from Point A to Point B…it is the journey along the way.
The shapers I know and respect learned long before any of the new way of making surfboards happened. They were before close tolerance, they learned how to read foam and how to reconstruct blanks. Tese are the guys that brought us to where we are now. If the old way deserves abandoning so much, then how come we got here in the first place?
I guess what we did then must have been pretty damn good to get us here now.
It sure as hell wasn’t the magazine ads.
The war is on for market share: the robber barons strive to get rich at any price, and the craftsman fight for enough to survive. There is a tragic yin and yang going on here and I doubt the tug-o-war will end soon.
I like the look of the shapes posted here , , They look like McTavish and many other Great named Mals…
For years people have come up with their own and wonderful ideas… until they all surf and look similar…
I cant ague with some of the points here, and could cut some others down.
Thats not my reason for posting.
Lifes a garden…
,…
Deadshaper,
Do you remember a few months back, you posted how you were looking to change industries? Have you considered writing? Your series of essays in this thread are really well written, and should be submitted for publishing. They really sum up the business end of surfing in ways that the non-pro can really understand.
The surf mags wouldn’t touch it for fear if slitting their throats, but perhaps others.
Dead Shaper is the best writer on swaylocks hands down!
I told him 2 years ago to write books.
Now do it!
There’s no money in building surfboards.
Ambrose is pretty good too, but I only understand half of it!
As the saying goes, oh yeah, yeah, nah. You can probably figure out what it refers to. But I think there are ways emerging now that can enable shapers to give the consumer a much longer lasting board with excellent performance, and for not much more than what they are paying for a PU/PE board. Which is why it’s probably too expensive already.
But once the glut of cheap imports has cleared will there be a shortage of boards? People might be grateful for what they can get if this happens. Shapers will just need to remember to charge what they are worth.
…there are already ways for shapers to build personalized, beautiful, custom surfboards on a par with the best high tech approaches that are widely advertised and descended from sailboard production of the 80’s. I know this because I’m doing it already as are some other extremely talented indivduals and they know who I am talking about.
It’s important not to lose sight of the fact that what has evolved in our industry isn’t a total abandoning of the earlier day method making of a surfboard, but the addition of alternative ways to approach composite sandwich construction. Don’t forget that even hand laminations constitute composite sandwich construction with myriad variations within that one method.
As a dedicated underground designer and shaper, I have (for the most part) shunned spending a lot of time and effort jockeying for the spotlight and chosen to put the focus into what I build. Nowadays we have such a media oriented society that I may have to play that game to some degree just to get my annual market share…that is unless I want to lose my house or cut losses and move to say, Agentina (no put down intended either).
As far as the writing thing…yeah, I know I’m quite literate. The spelling is only created by an aging laptop keyboard, too much foam dust, and a less than user friendly Sway’s spellcheck system. I just sent Surfding the intro and some early chapters to my book that has been in the works for quite some time: it includes, but isn’t exclusive to, surfing and our industry.
Tom Kendrick, who authored “Bluewater Gold/The Odyssey of a California Sea Urchin Diver” read my intro and early chapters and was very complimentary. He stated that my subject matter is much broader than his, and that I should pursue publication. Tom felt that my book would be easier to sell than his. He also mentioned the undertaking for writing his story was “the most difficult thing he has ever attempted”. Luckily his book was picked up by a small local publisher and now it is out there. With some luck a screenplay may be forthcoming.
My story is autobiographical. It has been said there is at least one book in each and every one of us. This is mine: how and what shaped me into who I am, what I have experienced along the way. My trials and tribulations, successes and failures. How I became ‘deadshaper’ amongst other things. Periods in my life much like (if not) an artist. Experiences while traveling to Egypt, New Zealand, Panama, France, Mexico, Peru, Hawaii and other destinations. I have articles that were published over the years in “Surfer”, “Japan Surfing World” and other publications, but never a book. I have had one friend’s mother, a noted author that lives iin Ireland tell me the only thing I need is a good editor. She also said the only difference between a writer and everyone else is “a writer, writes”. To be successful at writing takes a tremendous amount of discipline and a willingness to complete the task.
I pride myself on a writing style that constitutes an easy read. I want the reader to feel accessible to what I’m writing about. My goal is to let the reader feel what I am feeling. If I have done that, then I am successful.
My story begins at the roadside flea market along a curve of U.S. Highway 101 just two blocks from our house. It is 1955, and I am four years old. I’m standing looking at people haggling and bartering for all types of household goods. I see an old man packing it up and steering his small horse carefully through the crowd. toward what was then, a two lane highway. His wagon has only two wheels, a soft rag top with pots and pans dangling down clinking and clanging as he heads toward his next destination. A lady beside me bends down and says “gypsy, the man is a gypsy”.
I stood there watching him, wondering where he would be going next, whether he would ever come back…what it would be like riding the gypsy’s wagon?
So if some time you stumble upon a book “Riding the Gypsy’s Wagon”…you’ll know it’s me.
DS,
I was being facetious about the word “imitation” in the quote in my post.
I wasn’t reffering to the shapes.
I, being a board graphics guy, was pointing out the similarity of the paint jobs.
The Stewarts where boards I painted circa 2004 that where pictured in an old printed brochure and in an older version of the Stewart website.
The RJ’s are boards for sale on their current website online store.
I was kinda bemused that the paint graphics where so faithfully lifted by the Chinese OEM that build the boards for RJ.
So it goes…
Anyway, those sprays are 5+ years old.
They’re kinda dated.
I don’t really do them anymore unless some customer request one.
-ATOM
Ah! I stand corrected. You’re a hell airbrusher by the way. What I think is funny is that no sooner had i posted and your pix and post must have been a nanosecond ahead of mine…at that point the Ron Jon expose’ was non existent. It is interesting how knowing the history of who went first to China gets around. I mean I’m on the west coast away from ‘surf city’ and I was still aware of it.
I wonder if they are using Chinese paint? I thought it was interesting that Mitch said he uses all Austrailian or American materials in their quality Chinese boards…really? R U just kidding us…what about having to ship it over there. I doubt that it is the truth. Just look on the web, they’ve got fiberglass and resin and tape and all the rest of the stuff needed. Containers of Aussie foam blanks to China? I don’t think so.
Hey wow…they’ve even got WAVES. Like I said before…LEARN HOW TO SURF IN CHINA. Build some of your own surfing history other than:
“…we came in riding the coat tails of Austrailian, American and European board builders. We watched carefully and did everything needed to underprice and cut their throats. They were the masters and we bowed deeply to them while sharpening our swords for the awaited day. We struck swiftly and they fell to their knees. That was not enough, we had to make sure they could not even crawl, so we took their hands and their feet.”
excerpt form the Chinese bestseller “How to do Business in the New World”.
10% of exported Chinese goods are counterfeit. Just thought you might like to know.
Wowie…:0 :( :l
Bruce, your comments about the “hot groms” being scooped up by the next better offer must have been experienced by every local shaper/sucker(?) in the industry. It only took two of those to cause me to never consider sponsoring another surfer during my 20+ years of full-time board building. Perhaps this contributed to my never making it into the “big name” category of shapers, but at least I didn’t have to kiss any asses. Anyway, I still enjoy making those one-of-a-kind projects for those who still appreciate my efforts, more than 20 years after leaving the ranks of the beknighted folks who still struggle to make a living at such an undervalued occupation. Always was a “labor of love” for most of us, something never appreciated by the likes of “Mitch from O$”.
" something never appreciated by the likes of “Mitch from O$”."
how do you what mitch appreciates and doesnt appreciate.
btw id rather have imported chinese goods then imported american goods. the mass market american jewellery is overpriced rubbish from my experience. the chinese stuff is a lot better qaulity and far cheaper.
“la de dah de dah” pretty much sums up my reaction to both these last two posts. Jewelry means about next to nothing in my list of important and/or desirable items, so any generalization of quality differences between American and Chinese goods based upon your observations is meaningless IMHO.
Yawn…
bracelets??depends on what it is.im trained to make the crown jewels sort of level but cant be fucked working for $#%'s anymore. my advice is have a good old bonfire
get all your chinese stuff and flame it
otherwize shut the hell up.
“Jewelry means about next to nothing in my list of important and/or
desirable items, so any generalization of quality differences between
American and Chinese goods based upon your observations is meaningless
IMHO.”
yeah and a surfboard is fkin pool toy that any dick could make with a few weeks training and i couldnt give a shit who ends up mowing lawns.
Not directed at anyone.
But I still have respect for the guy who makes one-offs, Made for that indiviual, to improve his fun and surf level.
Much like a person who buys a hand fitted suit, Sure you pay more, but its a one off just for you.
For the rest of the people, that store bought suit works just fine, and sometimes better, as not all “Tailors” are up to scratch.
The truth of the matter is, I would sell your USA made boards for you, thousands at a time, if people didnt expect so much money for their Hand crafted with soul piece of art. When really its a peice of foam shaped nearly exactly the same way as the guy next door does, (I know this is as a fact, after looking at perhaps 250 different shortboards, who each thinks its unique, its NOT) Nearly everyone have nearly exactly the same shape, same concaves, nose lift, tail lift etc Fin placement, Logo’s in the same spots blah blah blah
And lets not foget those Wonderful CHINESE made FINS and deck pulgs EVERYONE uses,
You would all cry bloody muder if you had to pay four times as much for a set of fins n plugs,
You dont pay that much, as they are made in CHINA
What about WETSUITS, Would anyone buy a board from you, even at your current prices, if then they had to spend a futher $1500
just to ge a wetty , leash n grip and some wax… I dont belive they would. (or at least not as many) thats again why, We make these accessories OVERSEAS.
To back silly’s arguement, , A chinese guys once told me
“if anyone in the western world could go one day without using something made or assembled in china, then he would quit his job”
I should not write such things, I am never going to win an argument here.
I’m not trying to.
I’m just trying to ride the fine line between advertising, gathering information/opinions and when I can, Providing information.
PM me, for any ideas / information regarding having your boards made cheaper or anything else you would like sourced in china…
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