Epac, Firewire owns and runs their own factory in Thailand, and states so on the web site. Care to elaborate on your statement?
One of the points regarding firewire is that there is a wide margin of difference between what they are doing as opposed to somebody like Ace. I think I understand (at least try to) the long term commitment of both. For me, I can’t fathom the financial commitment of world wide distribution. On the other hand, I understand where Ace is ultimately more vulnerable to the leveraged distribution of a corporate manufacturer.
I at least try to understand what it takes for both sides, and in some ways appreciate both as well. The likes of Firewire can give a retailer a whole line of boards on terms that are more difficult for a one man operation to position itself.
Just read the COOL and it doesn’t seem to require that he laminate the country of origin on his boards, or that the marking even be made permanent, a simple sticker would comply.
:x
The laws require that the marking stay on the product until it makes it to the “ultimate purchaser”.
The only way to ensure this is to put it on as a lam. A sticker is sufficient as far as the law in concerned with Mitch, but if he was concerned with the laws being followed, he wouldn’t have a problem requireing a lam.
What is the problem with a “Made in China” lam, if it is a FACT? (rhetorical question here… I know the answer, and it is MikeD’s point).
In regards to costs and level playing fields thats never been the same either.
Take someone who buys more than say 60 blanks at a time, they are going to get a much better price than the guy who walks in a buys one.
One litre of poly by itself about $15, buy a drum and it comes down to about $3.
Buy a roll of weave $5 a metre, buy a cut metre about $10
Buy 50 sets of fins…
With regard to charges and fees and taxes the backyard guy who doesn’t abide by these laws is out there as well.
As for me being a friend of Mitch, no I have never met, spoken to, or had any contact with him and only know him from his posts on here.
I dont know what you mean by telling me to “get ahold of myself”. I was just relaying a story of QC in one Asian factory.
As for custom boards, whether hand or machine if the board is designed for the customer thats what defines custom.I personally dont use the machine and do all hand shapes but I see the value in such a tool and will be using it in the future as well as still shaping by hand.
I have lost a big portion of board sales to imports.I used to do many mid length boards( 7’0 to 8’6 mini mals). I reckon I could count on one hand the number I have done in the past 12-18 months. with Ebay and all the other sites and shops offering these boards for less than my costs I couldn’t compete.
I have been pretty lucky and have a core loyal customer base any way so it wasn’t a really big thing and my performance shortboard sales had picked up to cover it.
Honestly, at first I was the same as many others and whinged and bitched and moaned about imported boards.But then realised that this is the way the world is every one has a right to sell a product for whatever the market will tolerate and if I cant compete with them on price work out ways to sell either a better product or a more personalised product.
I’m a bit of a realist and dont go for the “I’ve been shaping for 164 years and these guys come in with their new fangled contraptions” type of argument.
Ask the factory workers in any city in Aust. that have lost their jobs to factories moving overseas. what do you reckon they did? had a bitch and went a got another job.
We’re just making pool toys.
Cheers
Daren.
Too true…to date I have only ever body surfed in a pool, never used a board in one, although people do.
Sure, toys to some, but craft to another, passion for some, obsession to others.
Whether a one man operation, or a larger scale corporation, the underlying force behind what we are trying to achive, well, most of us anyway, is to continue to strive to make a better surfboard.
Having fun, but not toying around!
All this side talk should be in a different thread.
Hey Mitch, did you find your salesman yet?
in regards to buying volume for building components i feel that the playing field is level, everyone will get the same price when they buy in volume, weather or not they can afford to is not an issue for the market to determine.
the other point that you made about people being able to whatever they want as long as the market will tolerate it, how do you define what is tolerable? is the market “tolerating” the product when it is being over run with cheap imported goods and pushing out experienced, progressive designers. is the market “tolerating” the product when it must be shipped thousands of miles consuming unnecessary fuel and other limited resources? is the market “tolerating” the product when design begins to stagnate and progression grinds to a hault?
in this industry progress has always been made by the little guys. the guys tinkering in their workshops and experementing with new designs and new materials. in the past if they find something that works they might make it big- now it seems that they will be swallowed by the massive corparate manufacturers, bought out at best ripped off at worst. IMO THAT is intolerable
you mean something like this; big, prominent and permanent. it that lets the consumer know flat out where the board was made.
i know its “like herding cats” but i would love to set up and be a part of a USABBG, but for now the SCBBG will have to do
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DS, glad you like the logo, it was created by my boss but i am a laminator for the SCBBG which is part of the Haut shop on Swift street in SC. We glass for all the in-house shapers: Haut, Noe, and JD Rockets, as well as many others you mentioned above (Fletch and Dave took over after Mike Wasch and started the SCBBG). I have worked there for a little over a year now and have learned much from the master board builders who frequent the shop (Andreini, Johnney Rice, Colleta, and the late Mike Croteau) as well as the other craftsmen who work there, namely Doug Fletcher who is an amazing laminator and board builder. We still do pretty good (better than some of the other glass shops from what i hear) but things have been slow with the economy.
i think that the imported boards have a little bit of an impact on business but not nearly as much as the economy. i am the youngest person in the shop by about 15 or so years and while i relish the opportunity to learn from builders who are vastley more experienced than i, it worries me that there are not more people my age who want to be in the industry (not as pro surfers). i fear that when the older generation retires there will be no one to carry the torch, and manufacturing will have to move to china and thailand, meaning that people in the US will become surfboard brokers rather than builders. to me it seems that this is where all this is leading, i fear that soon we will be in the same boat as the sailboard industry was in the 80’s. and mitch no offense but i think that you contribute to and exacerbate the situation
i hope that i can earn the respect of the veteran builders on this site and i work toward that goal to the best of my ability every day. thank you for reading, i think this debate is healthy and needs to be had.
oh in case you think i am racist i have a very loved young one dear to my heart ( half chinese)
over production by greedy people is the one bigest prblm. as for me i am retired& couldnt give a rats ass
good luck.
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Huie please dont think I have no respect for the builders that have come before me and have passed their knowledge on to others.But I give them no more resect than any other craftsman in any other industry. I am deeply passionate about building quality surfboards for people to ride and have learnt things from every one from 50 year veterans to work experience kids that I have had.
China has always produced cheaper products and the quality of their products is always improving and if we stand around a bitch and moan about it we will just end up bitter old men.The Chinese will get richer and closer to our type of economy and their prices will go up. I could be wrong but we’ll see, Dont worry I’ve eaten humble pie with the best of them.
I still think a fair and level playing field is just fairytail stuff. Personally I think the Darwinian model of life and business is unfortunately the way the world works and if we dont evolve to keep up we will be left behind and die out.
As for my comment about people that have been shaping 164 years this was more directed to egotistical shapers that are around who would have you believe they learnt shaping from a guru on a mountain top in nepal and we should all bow to their immense wealth of knowledge and bask in their presence.Dont worry these type of people would not participate in such a forum it would be beneath them. Shaping surfboards is not some mystical magical pastime of sages and holy men its cutting and sanding plastic with sand paper, yes surfboards are things of beauty and the joy you get from finishing a board and you just know its going to work is very fulfilling but its hardly curing cancer or feeding the third world.
I certainly dont think you’re a racist and i apologise if anything that I’ve written has given you that impression.
I didn;t mean to get your angry up I was just relaying things as I see them in this industry and the world and I dont think telling me I know sweet F##K all is the way to get your point across.
I think you contribute a lot here huie and I’m sure I could learn much from you. I hope you’re enjoying your retirement and I’m sure you do give a rats arse.
Cheers
Daren
…this is my 3 comment in this thread and still dont have the questions answered…
like with what name is signed the shape/s?
-big business have nothing in common with real surfing; surfboards in this case
only money and not and interchange or something between 2 persons
all these big business heads only want surfboards like products in the supermarkets and everywhere
then with the money travel to remote surf places around the globe and living la vida loca
I know that in Aussie land there re many surfshops stocked with piles of Asia boards and “nobody” buy them
that is very cool.
I repeat, we dont need more people in the water (people that come because the marketing, etc not because they want)
we dont need more business men, that are not talented for anything except make money with others sweat
we dont need more crap shaper with too much money in the bank sending blanks to the machine and to glass shops, then advertising heavely and believing that he s a great shaper or even boardbuilder!
also, the machine contributed a lot with these situations
we need to back to basics in the interaction between persons
talking about windsurfing, I wish the surfing go on that way…maintained only for the guys who really want that and no others
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