You obviously didn’t spend enough time in NZ Bruce. Mainly because the only thing you can make a decent living off in NZ is a tertiary (service oriented) business. As for primary and secondary (raw and processed materials), try China. Oh hang on a sec… that’s where it’s coming from anyway! If the China thing doesn’t appeal just move to Arizona. Your next “supplier” will be just a short trip over the border.
It’s called progress. Some may like it, some may not. Some may accept it, some may not. But as sure as change is inevitable, so is progress.
And the guy who signed the board, his name really is Kim, Kim Thompson. If you know Aussie surfboard making history, you would know he is a designer shaper of many years experience. He started Water Cooled Surfboards down in Torquay many years ago.
Well, I was aware that the electricians and other tradesmen do really well…very skilled by anyone’s standards…but that again, is service. The other job opportunities when I looked seriously at relocating (before 9/11 happened) and we had the house in Brown’s Bay…nursing and IT seemed like they were jobs offering the easiest hire.
As far as the other stuff in NZ, I was told timber, sheep, fishing, and tea production…can’t vouch for how true these assets are…you would know far more than I possibly could. I do know that NZ has many economic challenges but offers fantastic and affordable education, hence the “Brain Drain” where graduates are immediately offered jobs from other countries and are scooped off the islands with regularity. It is a shame more of those young brilliant grads can’t stay at home…still, the people and the lifestyle are terrifc in my book. Some of the best people on the planet.
Thanks for the clue on Kim. So what comes to mind is if he hand signed the foam, maybe he shaped it while over in Thailand, or maybe someone signed it for him like Merrick had Krause, Alan Gibons, and many others do for him, along with this practice done by other production shapers? I’m not taking issue with this, just putting it out there to add to this whole thread…which has broached a lot of periphery issues aroundMitch’s orignal post.
The board looked fine by all accounts: glassing was light but strong, FCS plugs weren’t overheated, shape was quite acceptable with nothing fundamental wrong…and from what you state, w wouldn’t expect it to be. Let’s face it, it’s pretty darn hard for someone to mutilate a well designed close tolerance blank these days. If they follow the blank, the board will work. If a novice decideds he is gonna be a great designer, well, we sincerely wish you luck.
Really all this stuff that has been discussed serves the purpose of people getting to air out how they personally feel about the subject and where they stand on it. No one likes the thought of losing their job to someone else, regardless of who they are or where they live. After that it just ends up becoming abstract.
I asked Mitch for prices on components and he has yet to get back to me on this. He asked me what kind of stuff I need, and I told him but I have not seen prices. I gave him qunatity numbers and I haven’t seen them. So for all the hoopla going on here, if someone puts out their inquiry then don’t respond when they get replies…well, they aren’t any better than the neighborhood guy that takes your order and sits on it for 6 weeks.
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PESONALIZED SERVICE IS KING.
The mystical aspect of shaping isn’t really about 164 years or how long you have shaped for. Maybe a guy started 20 years ago and he has shaped 50 boards while another guy started 3 years ago and has shaped 1500 boards. The relevant point that demands respect is how a shaper can grasp the mandatory ability to understand, combine and create successful designs through the use of compound curves. Early day shapers had very little to help them achieve this in comparison to today’s shapers…really apples to oranges.
No close tolerance blanks
No scanning CNC capabilty
No computer software programs
No laser lines to ‘teach someone how to shape’
Still, back then as now, some shapers have more talent than others. Some guys just get it better than others. There are popular shapers for whatever reason, and there are “shaper’s shapers”.
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Man, DS, you can articulate some points for sure. I have always believed in the craftsman that I know who still build boards as they have always done, one off customs, even proven models off of the machine to fill the demand. Whether from decades of experience, or interest in alternative methods or both, as well as opportunity to advance ones income out of the gutter (pun). It’s a multi level situation that is pulled down by the truly cheep crap. Anyone who has first had experience knows that there are many levels in comparison. Some of the shapers jumped on ST and BW for the opportunity, by passing the individual financial commitment it takes to do something overseas on their own. Of the shaper’s who do it on their own, people should know that it takes a lot to get off the starting line before any return shows itself. Think in years, yes business plans, and life expectancy in market niche. It takes wearing a lot of hats, way more than shaping a close tolerance blank. I know you know this, just saying for perspective. Far more, IMO, of the outsourced boards are done by your compatriots domestically, using the overseas labor… As for signing the work…… I don’t think that they want to, which leads them onto a personalized custom product for the discretionary surfer / buyer. In that light it’s good for you, I’d guess. Time will tell. As for the craftsman such as your self, it’s up to you to recreate, or continue as you see fit to make a living or supplement off of a spouse, or whatever. I think everything works in cycles, adjusting and paying attention is everyone’s responsibility. Think cream rising to the top.
Keep up the good work, I’ve always liked your boards and respect your historic level of progression.
Hi Guys
I have been away, Busy doing stuff
DS, I havnt got around to pricing bit and pieces for you , because basicaly I am judgemental
and I am guessing you were not going to be able to take 5000 fin boxs or 10'000 deck plugs
which is the quanities I order them in ,
Also , this is not my bussiness, I will however send small quanties of building products (or anyting else you need) along with orders of boards
as that is where I make my money.
That Said, I will still endevour to get you prices and Minimum quantity orders.
As for distibution needs, I would like to talk to anyone with ideas.
from
* designing a label and range together and you selling them.
* copying your label and range and yu selling them
* Leaving it all up to me, I designs a label and range, ship them to USA, Doing the sales via phone and internet and you organizing a whare house and the shipping of each boxed product to the address I send
This could be done using my money, your money or our money combined
Or your own ideas ???
(of course contracts and meetings will take place ensuring sell times and that no one gets ripped off)
Someone asked me who signs the boards, ... I have a few shapers that come here and sign their own boards.
You are very welcome to do the same.
PM me for any more info
Mitch,
......now that's interesting because my email never remotely stated the kind of numbers you indicate here. If you had replied to that effect, I wouldn't waste your time nor mine. I stated numbers o 100, 500, and 1,000 if you recall.
My inquiry was genuine. I have the capital and wanted to see what you would offer up. To exact a profit from surfboards is very challenging and whereas some people believe the only formula for success is volume, this may not necessarily be the case depending upon one's individual circumstances.
In other words, let's say that a builder has the capital and professioalism to make quantity purchases that have been projected for manufacturing a block of their product. Maybe this projection is for 6 months or over the next year. Or perhaps this same individual will have some compatriots that pony up funds to bump the order up. Or he plans to sell some of is purchase as a middle man to offset his costs. There are all kinds of scenarios.
My earlier suppostion to you was that you are probably better off importing and selling components to domestic boardbuilders than you are the finished product. Why? Because guys want to produce their own product. You can cal it ego, pride, passion, self centeredness.......whatever, but the song remains the same. Most guys want to be the lead man in the band.
You may very well find the guys you desire to further your business aspirations, but there undoubtedly will be many more that have the inability or desire to do it your way. To each their own.
You pretty much said it in your last post. You want to make the boards and hedge at offering components that would help domestic boardbuilders close the gap some between cheap labor and domestic products. Correct me if I am wrong.
I don't think many business interests making components that go into other products that are not assembled or built in China widely practice this discrimnatory approach.
If guys are flying over to China to sign "their work", I wonder what kind of volume they are doing to make it worthwhile and who is paying the airline tab. Being that my wife is retired flight crew, I could fly to China FREE but I would have to be in coach class and I wouldn't do that for all the boards in China.
Good read!
Well......................yes. I rec'd a PM from Mitch and because I need to be aware of what can be done within the industry from all different perspectives, I've been able to gain a keener insight as to how it pertains to my own individual situation.
Of course it is different for many people. Everyone has different needs and cost of doing business. I hope that everyone will gain some perspective from Mitch's post and if nothing else, it servs to give them better insight as to where they stand should they be counting on building surfboards for their livelihood.
It is a wonderful feeling to craft something that people derive so much enjoyment from. Some regard surfboards as 'pool toys' while others might categorize them as sports equipment. In this day and age, I'm starting to think of them more as therapy tools.
Do what you love and love what you do.
DS I have the same idea of selling components and acessories as a way to reach a new customer base, Who would perhaps at one point start to buy boards from me.
But the other managers see it as a waste of time, I will still try to get you a reasonable price, on the products you reqested.
Probably out of my stock,
Yes, the people who fly here to sign their boards are doing volume, they may spend a week here checking a few hundred shapes, sample the local bars and massage palours, and go home spending not much more than 1000USD
Air tickets are cheap, Food hotels etc I normally pay for, because it is also VERY cheap here,
e.g. you can stay in a 4star hotel for around 30USD a night
or go to a Massage palour, get a 100min massage, and sleep there when your finished for about 12.50USD
Wow, now that IS cheap.
I'm not sure what you mean by "other managers"?
I was under the impression that you were an entrepeneur from Austrailia and this was your business. Please enlighten us.
As for myself, when I rec'd your prices for different component parts and accessories, they were actually not a great enough savings for me to tie up a chunk of change that I would be earning on elsewhere. Savvy people know what I'm talking about......nowadays (more than ever) you have to be moving your $ around to receive the best benefit possible. For those crazy enough to want to speculate with surfboards, their pricing has to reflect the risk involved unless they want to lose their shirt or have money to burn or are using it as a tax write off while having a little fun. That's not most the people I know..........no, excuse me.......that's not ALL the people I know.
To cut to the bottom line, unless I saw a dramatic savings in the items I PM'd you, I would not commit my $ based on what I have stated. At the end of the day, I'm probably better off buying stock in booze and garbage service.
You know, the days of selling 5, or 10 a week in 3 shops that carry your boards are over. If they don't you’re screwed. If they do, you have to supply the demand, which costs in volume and storage. Nobody’s getting rich at this.
I think this equation might work at 40 boards a month. DS would be all over going to China to sign boards, fill the container, distribute the units to distributors etc. But let's be realistic.
…among other things, one of the problems that induce to this is the fact that there are too many shapers that are not shapers making (with the help of the machine) boards saturating the market (even the general consumer market)
!
Perhaps he is saying, to buy of me and sell 3 a week isnt worth while,
By buying of me you can keep the board costs down, perhaps making it possible or easier to sell those numbers.
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…hello Surfding, by any means I tried to disrespect you
you re one of the cool guys in this forum…
what you re stated is very similar to what I think
to clarify, I talked about shapers that are not shapers; Im not refer to very good shapers, like the names you posted
**DS gone home.
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