Water Based Speed Finish

 

I've been digging around on this and have seen that people may have tried to make a home brewed water based speed finish. A lot of the discussions seem to be open ended. So I have an epoxy board that I just finished sanding the fill coat and I figured I would try some experiments. I have some GF high performance water based matte urethane that works well, but it is just not flat enough. I was thinking of adding additional flattening material (talc) and spraying it to see how it works. It used to work for hot rod paint, so why not surfboards. I figure there will be some messing around with ratios, viscosity, and gun tip, but it might work well to hide sanding scratches better than straight urethane.  Thoughts?

 

Not sure what you mean by "home brewed", but there is a commercial product that some guys were using for a final coat, water-based, spray on, uv activated so any leftovers could be poured back and used later.  Don't recall the name of the product, but some searching in the archives may bring it up.

On the other hand, if you're going for a matte finish, why bother?  You should be able to wetsand your hot coat to a matt finish, and call it good.  Plenty of guys skip the gloss coat these days.

I think you might be talking about the gloss finish from c3d (Resin-X). I use that for gloss coated boards and it works great (just a little pricy). I currently do the sanded finish for matte boards. It works well, but doesn't have that nice even matte finish that you can get from a sprayed finish. Seabase has a water based alternative to the lacquer, and I was thinking that it is some type of flattening agent mixed in either an acrylic or urethane base. Since urethane seems to bond well to epoxy and I have all the material already, I thought I would give it a try. Worst case, I sand it off.

Behr Premium concrete, brick and tile Low-Lustre sealer.  Should be something comprable that you can buy over there if you can't get that patricular brand.  Low Lustre Sealer equals "Secret Sauce".  What  Fiberglass Hawaii and others have been selling in non-descript bottles for years .  Wipe it or spray it.  That's the stuff.  Don't let drips form on the bottom of the rail edge.

Mcding,

Is this the stuff: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202263929/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I have been using the Resin X UV clear and it can be kind of finicky. I get lots of fisheyes that need TLC. I would love to try something a little more idiot proof.

Thanks

The picture on the lable is differant than the gallon I just bought, but I'm sure that's it.  It is completly "idiot proof".  I used futures acrylic floor wax a few times but wasn't happy with it unless sprayed.   I went back to buying "acrylic paint thinner" AKA "secret sauce" from Fiberglass Hawaii.  I was sure they were just repackaging some kind of sealer or floor wax .  I finally figured it out when i bought this stuff to seal a concrete floor.  One look at the stuff convinced me that "Secret Sauce" is nothing more than Acrylic Sealer  You don't have to buy that brand.  Tile shops and wholesale janitorial stores sell other brands.  The same stuff.  Looks like milk in a glass.  Goes on cloudy.  Dries to a very nice clear low lustre finish.  One coat is great.  Two are even better.  One gallon will do bunch of boards.  If you got fish-eyes;  your sanded board probably had some kind of contamination.  Remeber;  Water based products will bead up or fish-eye over petroleum based contamination.  For instance;  never use a parafin based tack cloth on a sanded hotcoat to wipe it down or clean it if you are going to apply some kind of waterbourne finish.  Hope that helps.  Lowel

Thanks for the info. I’ll give it a try. Any issue with using this on epoxy? I remember reading here that urethane bonds better to epoxy; that’s why I was looking at urethane, but cured epoxy should be a mechanical bond to any topcoat, so I assume acrylic should be fine at such a low film build.

As long as you have sanded your hot coat or filler coat properly and have no contamination there should be absolutly no problem.

Thanks Mate,

I have been looking at some stuff from 3M, but so expensive. I’ll try get some of that stuff down under.

Cheers.

Yep!  A gallon will do a lot of boards.  I usually just wipe it on with a lambs wool applicator and leave it.  Some shops burnish it after it dries with a fine 3M pad and an Orbital sander.  I don't think that is necessary if you put down a nice even coat.

cool, thanks again.

Another few questions. Does this stuff cover small areas where weave is viable? Or just paint on some UV and re-sand that area?

Also how long does it take to dry?

I’m thinking of keeping production time at a minimal.

Ta

Try Smart and Final for water based urethane for floors its about 8-12 bucks a gallon and works well enough.  Wipe in on with a sponge or spray it on and scotch-brite.  Been using the stuff since Jack Sykes showed me in 1984 or 5.  Probably better stuff but not for the price, and it used to be a secret.

Dries to the touch on a medium warm day in an hour or so and then the board can be flipped for the other side.  Just make sure you have no drips along the rail.  Once they get hard they are difficult to get rid of.  Once you've got a coat on each side you can stand the board nose down in a vertical rack for an over night dry.  Burnishing it with 3M pad and an Orbital sander creates a little heat enabling the sealer to lay down and flow out.  As Ghettorat mentioned .  That's a common practice in most glass shops.   If you are happy with the coat you got down;  you can skip the pad and Orbital.   Gives the board a nice low lustre, eliminates smudges, hand prints and muddy dirt smears.  It does hide weave, provided it's not gross over sanding.  But honestly after veiwing pictures of your boards you probably never have that problem. 

That sounds like something worth trying out. Mcding, do you have any experience with the ‘Wet Look Sealer’? It looks essentially the same on their website after a quick glance but it is a glossier finish. Wondering if it would work as a low-tech gloss coat.

I've thought about giving it a try.  I would think thought that it would need to be sprayed with a cup gun.  Gloss finishes are difficult to wipe on.  Usually show brush or wipe strokes.  I would think though that if you wiped it on with a lambs wool aplicator, let it dry and then burnished it (as I mentioned previously) that it might work.

Here’s another one from home depot: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202563941/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Any idea if this will do the trick?

I have a few in the works right now maybe I will give the ‘wet look’ finish a try on the next one and report back. I have a sander/polisher and a buffer… maybe I’ll see what happens between the two.

I saw this great matte finish on a guitar. The guy was using a cheap sand blaster from Harbor Freight. He used walnut shells instead of sand to cut the sheen down on water based lacquer. Might be worth looking at…Also he was doing the blasting in a big cabinet he made so he could sweep up the shells and use em again. I think it would work on boards

I’ve had very good  short term results with  this…

http://stores.nextag.com/store/4860388/product/993394839/Rust-Oleum-Varathane-Water

Mentions boats in the product description…

Home Depot sells it too…

The spray cans leave a really smooth  application… Leveling is excellent…But are around $9-10 each…

I’ve recently read that spar urethanes are possibly not that good in direct sunlight though, so take my product suggestion with a grain of salt…

I’m using ResinX  H20 in the future…

Hey, I spent too long looking at too many sealers today from Bunnings Hardware store. I got a

water based

4 liter

concrete sealer

For $50

it will cover- 4liter will do 40m2, which is a shit load.

I did a trial today on one board and im %90 sure its the same as a bottle of “speed seal” that I got from S#$@%^S Australia.

Dries in 15-30 min. One or two coats.

same white (with a hint of blue) liquid.

Same everything, But maybe a touch thinner??? Keep you posted.

…I didn’t do the best test of it. But I’m sure it will be value for money!

I sanded into a 2nd (factory reject board) with 120 on an Orbie to expose some weave and this stuff virtually made it disappear, and that was with 120 on the orbie… and very rushed!

I cunt wait to do a propper finished board to do a good demo on. All in all. Cheers McDing!