Why are Surftech boards so expensive???

I commented quickly last nighton the topic.

Just in relation to the more theocratic comments - no system is perfect, be it the extremes of totalitarian soviet communist (have not seen a quote from Das Kapital in a while) or raw open market capitalist, or any other system for that matter. John Greys book Black Mass gives ample demonstration of this.

In the past 20 years we have seen the colapse of both systems, either through protest or bail-out

Naomi Kleins book No Logo is perhaps a better example of what is referred to as Corporatocracy by people like John Perkins and Jessie Ventura.

Essentially the brand - be it Surftech or Calvin Klein - is more important than the product. I have seen cars, mass produced and fresh out of the factory, branded with Quiksilver logos. Quiksilver licence their brand to a third party, and have no input to product design, build or distribution.

Waterford chrystal, a quintessential Irish product is now produced in Eastern Europe - but still carries the name. The primary shareholders are not even Irish. People will still buy Waterford Chrystal because of the perception that it is a high end Irish product, but they are buying a label. The movement of production has not reduced the price, but it has increased the corporate profits. There website is Waterford.com, the name of a county in Ireland, there is a heavy emphasis on their Irish heritage, but nothing about the outsourcing, the closure of the factory, the laying off of workers. The perception the website creates is that of high quality and Irish. I cannot see why under EU law can be produced in one place and named after another, names like Parma ham, Champagne and others are protected in this way.

However, if we relate that to surfing, adverts are of big waves, girls in bikinis, camper vans, sunsets and tropical beaches - not of mass production of neoprene suits or branded jeans in a landlocked region of China. They do not show child labour in the Phillipines or Tailand, they do not show oiltankers going in and container ships going out - but we ignore the latter and embrace the former.

In the case of surftech, Randy French took tried and trusted designs. In his defence I believe that from the production of a board, the original type designer gets a small fee. He moved production to a low cost base and started making products. Whether that is Africa, Asia or elsewhere is immateriel - quite often to reduce corporate tax or take advantage of inducements a corporation in the US will move to another state, or in the EU, move to another country.

He himself has done nothing unusual, he runs a corporate entity, his job and duty is to maximise the profits of share holders. In order to do this he needs to maximise unit profit - to achieve that aim there are two industry standards. Create demand and reduce production costs. However I do believe there is are moral and ethics questions in this business model.

The model in itself is no different to a t-shirt company, probably the same shirt sold at wallmart for $2 can have a label like O BillaBodyQuikCurl added and be sold in a surfshop for $20.

And with a slick marketing program, he creates a demand - We as a society are willing to pay that difference. It has gotten worse, labels used to be on the inside of a shirt, and logos discrete. Nowadays we plaster the logo across the chest, back, and anywhere else we can put them - we have become marketing tools.

What does bother me deeply is working conditions. Under the illusion of consumer choice (itself determined by income, not any altruistic corporate motive) we accept the exploitation of overseas workers and lax environmental controls.

When there was an article done in The Surfers Path about the Surftech boards, they spoke of EU level safety, hygene and environmental standards at the surftech factory. In the same article there was a photo of a worker wearing a baseball cap, tshirt, shorts and open toe sandals while working with chemicals - this does not add up.

In addition dumping was mentioned during this posting. We have products that sell at a high price because of a perception of exclusivity and status, however - this does reach a critical mass, at that point people will be unwilling to pay a higher price for something percieved as common.

When that happens, because of the volume of product, the price can be dropped rapidly to compete with cheaper brands that - even though they have the same production cost, do not have the same mark-up.

In essence, Surftech are just following a model well established in our current system. As long as we accept that system, we are equally at fault - And No, I do not own a surftech board, or an O BillaBodyQuikCurl piece of clothing for that matter, but my wetsuits, boots, hddie and gloves were made in China, and I still dont know of a good wetsuit made in the EU or US.

MrJ , I really dont think its fair to use the term hatred here .    It.s simply a natural reaction from people , when their work is taken from them . I have no hatred for iether ST or the workers of the Cobra factory. I just think ST have too much market share thats been bought with a big advertising budget  and not earned through many years of work.....its that simple

simon, although you didn’t address me directly your post is obviously aimed at much of what I have said.

Essentially I agree with what you are saying in particular working conditions. But the problem is the way you are presenting it just gets used as an excuse for protectionism. My wife said the EU were the worst when it came to protectionism of all the regions she had to deal with. If indeed Cobra international are exploiting their workers then they are a Thai company and that is up to them. However prior to the global crisis there have been some strikes in Thailand which is a sign of a strengthening labour market. When I moved to Oz in 1989 the place was riddled with strikes which used to annoy a lot of people, its all died down now but is one of the reasons why Aussie workers enjoy a reasonable standard.

Essentially you are giving fuel to the notion that it fine that the west has reached prosperity throught capitalism, but its not ok for the east to use the western implements of prosperity because they aren’t using it up to western standard so condemn them to their current status. Do you live in the West or the East and what sort of standard of living do you enjoy? I have also seen western workers show a complete disregard for their health.

 Remember they are behind the west - give them a chance to catch up and they will lift their own labour standards - although I do agree there have been cases of multi-national exploitation eg Nike in Indonesia.

no I don’t own any dry land fashion surf clothing, it doesn’t interest me, but there is nothing wrong with it in principle if people want to wear it and shops want to sell it. However my wetsuits are billabong, ripcurl and excel - but what am I supposed to do - glue wet-suit kits together myself like I used to do in school? - the wetsuits were awful then! I used to make my own boards too, it was great fun, but I’m over it now. You have also implied that I have been sucked in by a label without making a rational decision on the technology that the market offers.

Every country needs to both export and import without exception. The East are fully aware of the way global trade has turned them into export engines rather than domestic engines, they are working on changing the ratio.

if you live in the west then try and enforce your standards on the west,
don’t do it in a way which adversely impacts Asian business.

Shouldn't we all be baking a turkey rather than basting this one. at least in gringolandia

Am I the only one laughing at the irony in this thread?  The original question posed related to the high price of Surftech boards, and yet the debate has degenerated into a Luddite/protectionist lynch mob (with the honourable Mr J apparently on the wrong end of it).

I would understand the vitriol against Surftech a whole lot better if it had flooded the market with cheap products and undercut "traditional" shapers.  On the contrary, however, Surftech have clearly gone after a "premium" market that was not previously being served by traditional shapers - people willing to pay extra for durable boards and/or shapes from "name" shapers (which, until Surftech's arrival were often not widely available).    

OK, so it's a common view here on Swaylocks that Surftech boards perform poorly.  Maybe, maybe not - but if that's a common enough complaint, then there's clearly space for traditional shapers to compete in the market.  If "real" surfers don't ride them, what's the problem?  Are traditional shapers wanting to keep the kook market to themselves as well (in addition to the "real" surfer market?).

Another complaint I see is that Surftech (and other large-scale manufacturers) will kill the diversity of surfboards available.  Obviously there is something to this, but both Surftech and Firewire in fact have a huge range of models and variations on models.  My own experience here in South Africa has been in some ways the opposite - local shapers seem to churn out standard 6'2 chips and "performance" longboards, but my initial exposure to "alternative" shapes was by way of Surftech boards.  In a way, it was this exposure that started me along the road of experimenting with different shapes, and ultimately shaping my own boards.     

Finally, there seems to be a great deal of sympathy to the plight of poor Asians - so much so that we are to boycott their products until they get better working conditions!  How honourable.  The fact of the matter is that traditional surfboard manufacture is a labour intensive process, and most of the shapers complaining about competition from imports live in the wealthiest nations on earth, where the general standard of living is very high.  If people in other parts of the world are prepared to do the job for less than you are, how does that make them bad people? 

Actually, don't get me started about fair trade and access to markets, I'll only get annoyed....

Just remember one thing with regards to surfboards.......Its the Indian, Not The Arrows.  Happy thanksgiving.

Because they've got pretty paint jobs that cover up inferior glass jobs?

cheers Tim  :slight_smile:

I don’t celebrate thanksgiving, but to all those who do, have a good one

surfing for me tomorrow.

This has been an interesting thread.  I've learned some things.  Balsa Bill's comments were spot on.  Probably won't buy a Surftech cause I think they're too expensive.  Probably won't buy any shop board for that matter though I'm happy to pay full price for a shaper friend of mine to shape me a blank when I want it done just right. 

I have to agree with many of the things Mr J has said.  Aisian bashing is a common occurence here in "tollerant" NZ.  I was in a takeaway shop the other day and couple of drunk guys came in and were snickering at the Chinese guy at the counter cause of his accent.  The f####ing ignorant wankers couldn't understand a different language if their life depended on it.  This guy came to very foreign country and is working 14 hr days running a business.  Good on em.

If you can make something that people want to buy and there a some people that don't like it.  Most westerners would say stuff em.  I don't think all the railing against Asian board builders is going to make one bit of difference.  If you can make it and people will buy it.  It's going to just keep getting done.  The few guys I know that shape have as many orders as they can handle.  But I wouldn't want to see my kids get into any aspect of the surfboard business at this point.

It’s NOT the people that work on the ST type boards.

It’s the suits, I tell you. The suits!

Paper pushers.

…I’ve been looking in shops for over 5 years to find an Australian made Australian flag, do you think I’ve found one, NO. I have never herd of anyone complaining on Australia Day about their flag and where it’s made either. a LOT of things go unoticed.

Surfing is my religion, as it is also a lot of other peoples, I hold it close to my heart.

The SURFBOARD matters to ME.

 

 

I think that ST boards are probably expencive due to a few reasons,
they are:

The ammount of commission the original “labeled” Shaper collects

ST’s advertising bill

Strict quality control, meaning they will waste alot of boards they cant sell

Countries Import duties and tax

(please correct me on this one) but, arnt most ST boards PVC molded,
as in dont they have a PCV shell in amoungst their layers, it is expencive to setup the mold.

Whilst they “might” not surf great, they will last for a very long time.

research and devopement.

Popularity

Regularity - They are “popped” out, thus if you like one, you can get it again

and yes, the pretty pictures they spray on the boards…

 

But mostly,
I think its the people inbetween the “factory” and the “consumer” that are adding the most money…

Thus driving up the end sales price.

 

I’m not speaking for or against, its up to the seller and buyer on how much to pay.

 

**In the land of the blind, the one eyed **(trouser snake) man is king.

 

in nz there are thousands of workers being expoited everday in horticutural industries. they sign contract to work hard out on peice rates and make often under 200$nz per week often sharing tax numbers and living in pretty shitty setups. tongans samoans asians kiwis etc etc. none of these people can afford a surftech. fuck surftech and fuck capitalism. middle class wanker landlords that ride surftechs talk down and racist on these people and call them dole bludgers yet when they work they get payed less then the dole and when they have money they spend it locally on things like food. there aint no more customers to buy this stuff from china. how many fuggin tv sets do ya need . they run out of customers so they offer endless credit to lure the lower class into more debt. and so there interest payments are more then they are earning. who imports all the speed . the chinese yeah. making money selling speed . life is cheap in south east asia, they lie cheat and scam and stupid lower class kiwi and aussie gets fucked. asian man works for less on contract rates and drives prices down so kiwi cant earn enough to pay rent. but immigrant dont care cuz they have 10 living in 1 bedroom flat and can save up to buy takeaway. turns out a big scam in legal aid with heaps of dirty scum layers exploiting and rorting the legal aid system so even if we do try and say something we get labeld trouble maker and fired from job . meanwhile big business continues to rape natural resources like fisheries in a criminal method using law system( 10 year court cases ) and bribes to go unchecked. goverment agents/monitors wont check on asian fishing boats working for these companies as the conditions are to dangerous and they might end up overboard. seems to me like the country is up shit creek. we are a banana republic.

bring back the monarchy

?

 

yeah yorky and they wonder why they get blown up?

I think most of us know that sort of thing is imported, yes typically from China.

I don’t have a recent copy of the Economist magazine, but that publication is an easy way of seeing which countries run trade surpluses/defecits and also the harder to understand concept of the current account defecit/surplus - figures in the back pages. I do have one from June 20th 2009 which isn’t that long ago. You might be surprised to know that Oz ran a trade surplus of +6.1 USbn which means it exports more than it imports. Its just the imports are things like flags which you see in the shops. This govt website gives an overview of Oz’s exports.

http://www.dfat.gov.au/aib/trade_investment.html

  • an excerpt

“In 2007, Australia’s largest export markets were
Japan, China, the United States, Republic of Korea and New
Zealand.”

You sell boards in Japan?

However you are smalltime - from the govt website:

In 2006, Australia was the world’s largest exporter of
coal, wool, zinc and tin ores and concentrates, iron ore, beef,
barley and raw sugar (2006 UN Comtrade Database).

I think that the deals done in those commodities are done by businessmen in suits.

crazy?!!

although no surfboard is traded like that

its what gives us our western standard of living, any other ideas for restructuring the world economy?

US trade balance for that time -711 US$bn ie massive defecit although not much of that was surfboards. Both US and Australia run current account defecits, which means regardless of Aus’s trade surplus more AU$ is ending up in overseas hands than Aussie hands. There are various reasons why this happens and this appears to be sustainable, however people are questioning just how sustainable this really is, particularly the US situation.

surfboards aren’t under the rules of the World Trade Organisation, but a lot of the commodities I mentioned in my previous post are. Ignoring the standard of living issue, if Aus was to block China imports we would be cutting our own throat because Aus exports even more - WTO laws would then allow China to retaliate with its trade barriers and to use the Australian expression, we would be up shit creek without a paddle.

F#$K you really are up tight. arnt you!

slap slap slap.

… I make MY boards with MY Name on em and I sell them to who ever and where ever I please, Japan Yes, NZ Yes and Mr Tax Man Loves it.

MY workers I call my MATES, and I’m Proud of it!

Go do what ever your educated self does.  I hope it’s bringing you Joy!

What was that mag… who gives a stuff.

F#$K dude take a chill pill.

At a guess we export raw materials then buy it back in the form of products, goods, etc…(and I did say guess, a simple yes or no will do)

…All I ever wanted to do is surf, and I fell into my carrer as a shaper so I’m not educated enough to offer any **ideas for restructuring the world economy, **Sorry. But I bet I can Build a better surfboard from start to finnish then you!

Yeah I have put on a suit a couple of times, all I wanted to do is rip it off. I felt like I was suffercating. Poor (weathy) bastards that have to where them every day, Stuff that! Not for ME, NOT FOR ME!

 

 

 

 

 

I believe you’re thinking of Bics and maybe NSP/South Point. Possibly Boardworks, too. Those all use the same molding process that came from sailboard tech. Hard PVC outer shell with foam injected within. I think they often use a term like “rotomolding” to describe the process.

Surftechs are made with a molded foam core, then laminated with layers of fiberglass and PVC sheet foam. This is a scan of a Surftech ad that shows the layers involved.