I agree. My first reaction was the change in outline was too abrupt and funky and I’m an advocate of fair curves. But there must be something to it. Another surfer shaper collaboration that’s producing some great surfing is Dave Rastovich and Akila Aipa twin fins. The Aipas have the same funky outline. Check it out.
its a table if you put a cup of f#ckin tea on it
i know my shooter is not a fish anyway
its a table
and im eating a surfboard for dinner tonight
lol my daughter just said" i dont think anybody would like a board that looked like this" and drew a swallow tail fish
Why would you not want to surf one? Seems like the best of both worlds. You can paddle easier than a needlenose but once you get up and running fast enough, you can surf it off the tail like a hi-performance board.You can also duck dive them. I just wonder how big of waves you can surf them on? Let’s get off the fish or no fish subject please.
no no! i want to take sammys argument all the way to its logical conclusion that a “fish” is an amphibian creature that swims in the f#cking water and has nothing to do with a surfboard other than they also are also found in the water sometimes as well. Regardless who inappropriately chose the word to market an average and now dated surfboard design, the reality is that they function nothing like a real fish whatsover. In fact, probably the most relevant use for one of these boards, is actually as a table for one to rest their cup of tea, beer or feet. And i have to thoroughly agree, that my surfboard is definately not a fish or a surfboard that looks anything like fish or even a table for that matter.
i shall rename it "Ornitharincus "
Don’t put words in my mouth (so to speak)
Fish are not amphibians. Amphibians can breathe air. They can survive on land but are also adapted to spending extended time in the water. Fish are incapable of doing that. So, your use of the word “logical” is illogical.
This is Josh Hall's rocket fish at 7'2 x 20 x ??...
This is what immediately came to my mind in your original question
bumping for pure entertainment value
(not convinced about this type of design 'letting me down' if I found myself on one in large surf)
Two things -
The primary draw of a fish shape to someone who likes to surf a fish is actually not the length or the volume or the paddle quotient. It’s the way the board actually surfs, the lines it draws, the skatey way that it moves.
It’s a specialty shape. A niche. It’s not the type of shape someone would buy as a “have it both ways” daily driver for all conditions. Most fish riders include them in a “quiver” (large or small) that includes other boards with completely different attributes. I always take at least two boards (different shapes) with me every time i leave the house.
There’s nothing wrong with and nobody here is criticizing the longer, narrower and more rockered swallow tail boards. But that combination of attributes shines best under somewhat different conditions and leads to a different style of surfing. Some people consider that to be a negative and some consider it to be a positive.
As it happens, I have both shapes and I very much like both shapes, albeit in different conditions. I have a 5-5 fish variant with 3.25" nose rocker and a 17"n-21"w -17"t layout that I absolutely love for some conditions, and then I have a 5-10 swallow with 5" nose rocker and a 15"n - 20.5"w, 15.5"t layout that I prefer under different conditions.
Each combo requires a different approach and draws different lines. The swallow tail moves differently than the fish and draws different lines and makes different turns. Even the optimal stance and weighting for both is a bit different.
Now in all of this I’m not saying that one is better than the other - they’re both a lot of fun when used in the conditions in which they excel and (for me) they both struggle more when they’re out of their element. In addition to these two I also own and ride other boards like a 6-2 performance quad, a 5-6 biscuit-variant thruster and a 6-10 singlefin egg. They all have their place and I enjoy all of them, but every single one of them requires a somewhat different approach and result in a somewhat different style of surfing. I haven’t mastered any of them nor am I really trying to do so. I’m just trying to have some fun.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone thinking of their surfing style as consisting of one “style” and using that one set of moves on every board they surf. They just need to recognize that the amount of variables that will work with that one style - no matter which direction they’re going - is going to be narrower than someone who has a broader range of interests. That being the case, the differences between their favorite boards are also going to be a lot narrower.
Silly likes the rockered thruster-based performance board and there’s nothing wrong with that. But given his bias it should be no surprise to anyone that he’s not getting anything out of trying to run the same range of moves on a completely different shape. The rail line for a board with a 16" nose and a 16" tail just isn’t going to look the same or carve the same type of line as will a 14" nose and 15" tail. It has nothing to do with better or worse; it only has to do with different. The debate about tail shapes may be a bit overblown but there’s no doubt that a tailblock that’s 11" wide is going to feel a lot different than a 7" or narrower tailblock.
As for duck diving, you just need to work on your technique. I have no problems duck diving a 7ft egg (17+" nose) that’s carrying more overall width and volume than one of those thruster mini-mals that the Aussies constantly refer to. Granted, I’m going to have a tough time getting deep enough to get past an 8ft wave face but then again I’d never surf such a board in those conditions in the first place. I don’t normally favor a modern thruster shape but when I do swap boards with someone who does it always amazes me how little effort and skill it takes to get that tapered 11" nose under a wave. It’s so easy even a girl with no shoulders to speak of can do it.
Lastly, let me say this about trying to “have it both ways”. That line of thinking usually results in a compromise that doesn’t really scratch either of the itches involved. If you have the means to own two boards that between them involve fewer compromises that’s always going to work a little better than trying to do it all with just one board.
gdaddy, that's a well-written, well-reasoned post.
What the hell is it doing on this thread? :-)
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This is Josh Hall's rocket fish at 7'2 x 20 x ??...
This is what immediately came to my mind in your original question
bumping for pure entertainment value
(not convinced about this type of design 'letting me down' if I found myself on one in large surf)
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That's what I call a winterfish. It's not a fish, though. What do the fins look like? Mike
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unfortuantely I do not know about the fins, but I'd guess a quad, JH usually runs wood fins from D. Partch (sp), Gephart (sp), or J Cherry
"its not a fish"... agreed, but maybe we all just need to say there's a "fish family"???...
not a fish....
another one I like is Hess's "Moraga" found here http://hesssurfboards.com/
and well... very far from a fish but still within the "paddles well with narrow tail" format is Greg Griffin's "Rocket" found here http://www.griffinsurfboards.com/rocket.html
(Greg might very well laugh me off the page for posting this one, but its how I see this board... great all rounder imo)
I know I'm way outside the lines.....
BTW, I think the reason you usually don’t see wider noses on boards made for juicier waves is that after a certain point (and it ain’t much) a wider nose with minimal rocker actually gets in your way when trying to make the drop. You have to take extra stroke to get over the lip as opposed to being able to readily push the nose through the lip. As good as Rasta is on a fish you’re probably not going to see him taking off under the lip on one. Adding width and contact area to a board is about generating speed; reducing width is about control.
you got me sammy, your right a fish is not an amphibian. its a farkin fish isnt it . lets say aquatic creature. your argument is still bollocks because a surfboard isnt a fish its a surfboard.
nice gdaddy. but i can surf a retro twinnie as well and do. but not when the surf is going off. they dont belong in the lineup as people that ride them cant make the drop. and blow waves. qaulity barreling surf is a limited resource and guys that paddle out on retro fish and maintain any sort of status are either tough mutherf#ckers or bullshitly good surfers. anyway f#ck the pigs. whether it be the real ones or the surfboard “design name” ones
btw wrt that last board posted. i cant see why straight railed 7 foot boards are so popular in the states. everyone ive ever ridden has been a tracky heap of junk. middle size boards should be tables
[img_assist|nid=1048037|title=fish|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=427|height=640]dis is a fish’’
are you sure that is a fish huie?.
so is the story of the fisherman that went overboard and then they caught a big cod a week later and the dudes head was inside the cod. is that a true story or urban myth
Pau,
I completely agree with your comments about trying to surf a wide tailed fish in a barreling wave. But that’s not the type of wave for which the fish was developed. When the waves get faster and more hollow most all the fish riders here in the states switch it up to boards with less width and more rocker.
Nevertheless, here in the San Diego region where Lis and company did their thing there are a lot more days that are fish-friendly than not. That’s why they’re more popular here than in other areas that routinely have faster and more powerful waves. FYI, San Diego is not exactly a hotbed of WCT fans and there isn’t a whole lot of grom-envy here. People here don’t look to the magazines for their inspriation, leastwise not as much as do some of the other surf communities.
I’m sure that if I surfed where you surf I’d be building boards for those conditions. I have a feeling that if you surfed where I surf you’d be a little more open to switching it around a bit. Then again, maybe not.
i have 2 wide tail fish in my quiver and surf them when the waves are clean fat and small. but i still think that there are better designs for these conditions as well. watching a few japanese surfing on youtube. saw quite a few widepoint forward pulled tails in singles quads and thrusters