OK… I’ll say it. There’s strarting to be a lot of B.S. thrown around in here.
Retro twin keeled fish work great in the tube. Anybody who says they don’t hasn’t tried it, or hasn’t been riding a true twin keeled retro fish. It’s that simple. The reason why???.. they’re so SHORT, and that deep swallow and big fin do their job. It’s what they were origionally designed for. Short, fat, down-railed, Vee bottomed, deep swallowed F-I-S-H.
But making the drop is another story…
they are hopeless in the barrel man. slow and almost impossible to drop in under the lip on an angle. the wide tail and v bottom works against you the whole time. you cant go trim high enough for clean exits. they might be okay on a slow barrel you can surf top to bottom but your shit out of luck on a fast wave
barrels need a nice curvy tail rocker . thin pullled tail and three fins yo
Yea… hard to make the drop in big, steep, jacking surf. No question. But if you can set up for the barrel, you can most certainly make big, fast, reeling tubes no problem on a good ol’ fish… I’ve been a fan of them since high school, and have made my share of exits from fast, firing, beachbreak barrels.
Wasn’t there a section in Sprout of guys making barrels on retro fish?
Check here around 2:50 or so…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduzEpqNwBM&feature=related
Just don’t try to draw the same lines as a thruster.
Thank you… THIS! looks like a fish to me. Guess if I’m being kind, then it depends upon how much history you have under your belt. Steve Lis and Brom would tell you very specifically what a fish is and isn’t. Mayhem redefines stuff any which way he wants to brand and sell it, but that doesn’t mean it is correctly applied amongst the shaping populace.
I rode many wing swallows that I would NEVER call fish. They could’ve been single, double, or triple wings/bumps, or even a stinger, but none of those were fish! All the fish in my day had split tails, double keeled type fins although some were singles, and were around 6 ft… although people deviated of course.
By and large Retro Fish have 10" splits give or take and the outline above is very consistent to what was followed and prescribed to as a Fish: wide point forward, parallel outline behind center and wide split tail. As stated here that is “a goddamn fish”.
Go back to some old Surfer and Surfing Mags (amongst others) and that will document it for naysayers.
Biolos, biolas, Mayhem, er, whatever… can call his design whatever the hell he wants, but historically it ain’t a fish, never was a fish, and will never be a fish.
this probably doesn't add anything to the quest for a "winterfish", but I think it exemplifies the type of surf and the type of surfing that the classic or old-school fish shape is best suited for...
and here's a more "modern" fish, with pulled in tail - called a turbo fish
I hate it when people start ‘rewriting history’.
A fish WAS a fish just like in the picture I cited. Nuthin more, and nuthin less.
Why don’t we just take a pintail and widen it chop off the point and call it an '“abbreviated pintail”?
The squash tail becomes a cornered round tail or thumb tail, And so on. forget that a curved cut split tail was known as a swallow tail and the straight cut split tails were dove tails… that was historically on record, but IF you have enough MONEY you can just go about rewriting history any which way you wanna spin doctor it.
Look to the past to keep sight of the future.
and here’s a more “modern” fish, with pulled in tail - called a turbo fish
Looks like a thruster to me.
Lillibel,
i agree with Silly, those tails are ugly. but, if they work...
and, you are right, Rob and Dane's surfing on those is really nice to watch.
kinda remind me of the Terry Fitzgerald "Screwdrivers"...
http://raisedbywolves.com.au/catalog/Terry_Fitzgerald_Handshapes-2-1.html
Yeah. Ugly. I don’t even like the bump squash and these twins practically have a corner at the wing. But check out Dave Rastovich in “The Present” riding the Akila Aipa twins. Maybe I’m just digging the SURFING, not so much the boards…but the fact is I dig the surfing they’re doing on those boards.
As far as the definition of “fish”, come on guys, don’t get your panties in a knot. It’s just semantics. The guy was asking about wide nose, wide point forward with a pulled in tail. Call it what you will, "Wizard’s Sleeve’ for example. The concept is interesting…
re. rewriting history. like tom blake inventing the hollow wood board.
so if thats one of the first significant historical moment of surfing in the US and its bs
we can only assume that with such a solid foundation of bs, the rest that follows ??
ive gotten plenty barrels with a 5’8" quad fin harbour fish in up to 2xoverhead surf and u can take as steep a drop as u want if the board is small enough, even an air drop, the low entry rocker and flatter rocker overall combined with a short length allow u to fit in tight spots on the wave. the only thing i found was inside the barrel it would want to climb the face if u got too close to the upper third of the barrel, but the ability to apply pressure on the front inside rail (cuz of the wider point forward) allows u to slip the tail back down and compensate. Definately not the choice for super late heavy slabs, but anything less and the fish is great. mainly on glassy head high to 2x over. can work good on small stuff if u wanna work for it… i mainly longboard now unless i need a gun but i love my harbour fish (shaped by tim stamps)
i have a 1975 twin fin 6’2" original rich harbour that is great frontside but cannot handle late hollow backside waves very well. not as versatile as the quad in my experience.
Slow fish??? Are you sure it’s a fish you are talking about? Low rocker, short, wide board?
Here is the fish part (throw in a singlefin and a bonzer) from sprout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduzEpqNwBM
um apparently thats not a fush haarvard. according to the rules of swaylocks,
the tails are pulled on most of those boards in rastas vid
besides a pro surfer paid to surf it on flawless waves doesnt count
also i saw an interview with rasta saying that the tails are too wide
a lot of the surfing in sprout looks clumsy after cutbacks especially the wide tail boards. they are slow off the rail to flat and you can see the surfer has to recover from the turn with a wobble
I think the worst recovery in that part of sprout is of the guy riding a hull? I wonder what the swaylocks rules says about pulling the tail in, how much can you pull in from standard 16.5" tail and still call it a fish? The clyde betty tigerfish is approx. 5’10"x20" with a 15" tail or thereabout?
Yea, brother… I’m no pro, and I surf beachies exclusively except for when I travel, and know exactly what you’re saying.
When I ride a fish in the tube, I’m focusing on the foot pressure, for sure. Same thing when I turn… it’s almost the same feeling - you get the sensation that you’re riding on one fin, and one pin. For lack of a better way to describe it, I think you can compare it to slacklining in terms of foot pressure and focusing on that imaginary line under the board that goes from somewhere along the nose rail, right through the fin, and out the pin. And if either your front foot or back foot isn’t applying that pressure in the right spot, you end up going up or down the face. On a thruster, I feel like I’m riding more of the tail and two fins… the inside fin and the trailer.
I feel were focusing too much on twin fins here.Lets get over the
traditional fish with a wide tail and two fins. The thread is about fish
,or “fish type to make everyone happy” boards with pulled in tails, maybe tri-fin tails, twinzers.How bout a quad .Whatever holds on bigger waves.
burned through the pinline on the tail a bit oh well.its for me anyway