I was looking at some boards that came from the epxoy pro shop. (XTR foam and epoxy resin)Can someone explain how do those vent holes work when the board is waxed up? will the vents work properly when plugged up with wax? Nice looking and light boards BTW.
A guy brought one into the shop the other week. The deck was totally delamed. about a foot in diameter. Those vents don’t work. He tried to have it repaired at Javiers bit was given the cold shoulder.
I thought Javier was giving 45 dollars worth of a “warranty.” What goes in… Rob Olliges
wow bads stuff huh…I was just interested in how those vents might work or don’t work with wax all up in them. I wasn’t looking to buy one. I make my own boards and wanted to experiment with EPS or XPS foam…I think I will stay away from XPS for now.
The vents work after the surfboard have been used for some time and gas is released from the closed cell foam, specially at higer temperatures where the wax melts and let the gas escape, the water will not penetrate this blanks are closed cell. You can even put traction in your board and the gas will escape. Some surfboards made before jun 2002 didn’t have a complete vented system, today “thermovents” go under your feet and on the rails. If a customer owns a surfboard with thermovents IT WILL NOT BUBBLE. I feel sorry for those people trying to put this technology down and they just keep using a 50 year old technology. Right now we are glassing XTR epoxies for Al Merrik, Lost, Rusty, Brewer,Linden. ETC. test your product in the water, this shapers all own XTR epoxies For those guys that need some epoxy resins go to EPOXYSURFBOARDS.COM Good Luck.
If you buy a surfboard in a dealer you can buy a warranty for a full year for only $45.00 and we will take care of repairs. Longboards are $65.00 Only XTR surfboards glassed by Epoxy Pro.
I have looked at a few XTR boards. Yes, they are lightweight, but the decks feel very soft and guys I have spoken to say they dent and delam like ultralight poly boards. What is the advantage of XTR, other than closed cell, if the boards are as fragile as any other board? Just curious why all the hype when people on the beach are seamingly disappointed.
Why the hell do you guys at Epoxypro call it XTR foam? I thought it was called XPS (eXtruded PolyStyrene)… and the beaded stuff was called EPS (Expanded PolyStyrene) …What gives? -Carl
bummer. i would hate to sound cynical here …but here it comes …i dono how your gonna solve this one …i was building boards from xps from 92 to 95 …i really tried everything .its really difficult stuff to get good peel strenth…every time you get a pressure ding the foam dents but the epoxy glass job springs back leaving a tiny delam this then starts as a wedge and the delam grows and connects with other pressure dings i had one board and it ended up just a shell with foam rattleing inside .the best results i got with the stuff was running a razor blade across the foam about 6 ml deep in a criss cross pattern allowing the resin to penetrate the foam and hold it better ,the down side of that is when the board got hot the pattern of the grooves would imprint on the board making it look rough …eventually i gave up on it as i had moved onto better things it was really a step backwards from what i was doing anyway …i was trying to make an affordable epoxy board that didnt suck water if dinged …now i have my whole factory insulated with all the foam i never used to make those boards …sorry to say thats my experience with the stuff, alot of come backs and pain,i hope you guys have more success maybe i over looked something …another little device i used that did work was a rolling pin with spikes same principle but it looked kinda ugly and it was hard to laminate cos you always got air bubbles in almost every hole…well good luck guys regards BERT ps get the dam glass job to stick get good peel strength and youve nailed it…
I am sorry but a warranty for a surfboard??? That should tell you something right there… http://www.savesymrnainlet.org
Javier uses his OWN type of XPS foam. Not ALL boards that are XPS are made with the “XTR” brand of foam. The different manufacturers use different variations of the XPS foam. In 2 years, after R&D of almost 1 year with our “own” type of XPS, HDX has NOT had ANY delams. http://www.hdxsurfboards.com
what can you tell me about hdx???is it any different to other xps ???or is it just another hype thing?or a genuine breakthrough???what colour is it??whats the density?? regards BERT…
All the foams extruded polystyrene foams are pretty much the same. They are all made by the same few companies. All are closed cell. Anytime heat and or pressure is applied past the threshold of the cell structure they will all eventually delaminate. The cells expand and and the gases are displaced. There is no magic nondelaminating extruded polystyrene. This is the nature of this foam. This foam is old news. Been around for a long time.
In a few years, after all the hype has blown over regarding removable fins and alternative foam/resin combos, we will all be back to riding our poly sticks with glass-ons. It is so hard to compete with the large shapers that small-timers are hussling out old crap that has failed the test of time in the past and are trying to “brand” it as something new. Whatever, if people like it good for them. At least with the “50 year old technology” poly boards, I know what to expect from them and hey, 50 years pretty much means they have withstood the test of time! Next, we will be hearing that surf wax is old news and to use some new-fangled spray on crap that has a slick-sounding name.
Pedro wrote: “All the foams extruded polystyrene foams are pretty much the same. They are all made by the same few companies. All are closed cell. Anytime heat and or pressure is applied past the threshold of the cell structure they will all eventually delaminate. The cells expand and and the gases are displaced.” Which same few companies are that? I know atleast two companies that manufacture them locally + the imports. Although they are mainly made from the same materials, there are surely some difference in manufacturing methods. Anyone know what blowing agent is used? I would guess that the closed cell nature of the foam and the even surface will to some degree prevent the resin to penetrate and bond with the foam. Also if what Greg said is true and the foam contains some polyethylene then no wonder the resin does not stick. However, I would expect the amount of polyethylene to vary greatly between pieces of foam AND manufacturers. Bdw. why don’t a PU blank delam when heated? Doesn’t the gasses inside expand? I’ve seen plenty delammed decks on PU boards… regards, Håvard
XPS traditionally uses a fluorocarbon (bad stuff) as a blowing agent, but carbon dioxide can be and is used by some producers. EPS uses pentane. Pentane has been used in EPS since the 1950’s and does not directly contribute to the “greenhouse effect.” There is a lot of variables in how each foam is manufactured. These products continue to improve due to EPA regulations and the large building industry’s need for better products. I don’t know about XPS but EPS has benefitted from EPA rules to reduce the amount of pentane. Less gas trapped in the foam. Rob Olliges
arron in a few years youll be sitting around on an empty resin drum saying what am i gonna do tommorrow “boy i wished i got into new materials when i had a chance” …ive been building epoxy boards since the late 80 s, i ride them and can never go back to pu and polyester its like comparing an old family car to a ferari or porche. they have handled the widest variety of conditions from 15 ft margrets to 1 ft beachy slop they out perform out last conventional materials …just because there are people still trying to get it wired and making mistakes doesnt mean its no good …its like saying you seen a bad pu polyester board so they all must be bad im sticking to my solid wood board ???was anybody saying that when pu and poly came in ??(that was valid question if anyone was around then??)were living in exciting times development wise…a few have got it wired so now people can see the potential…it may take another 20 years but it will happen… regards BERT
Havard and Bert, please email me direct at . Havard, I have a few Q’s that you may be able to answer, plus do a bit of business. Bert, I’ll send you a sample of the foam we use. http://www.hdxsurfboards.com
Jeff, I’ll get in touch with you over the weekend. No email here right now and the mountains are waiting…
Bert, that’s funny! Actually, in a few years I will be sitting around in the water on a poly board I made 10 years ago. They work for me, I have them wired already, I know how to glass them so they don’t delam or implode/explode. They are easy to repair, they polish out nice and they hold up well. If epoxy does all that, but outgasses and is too stiff and has other quirks, I don’t see it as a superior alternative, just an alternative. I am not against epoxy/stryofoam boards, but they have been around a long time already and the sudden hype is all b.s. All the time I meet guys who have gone back to poly from epoxy for one reason or another. 15 foot Margarets is hardly the test of any board (strength), but I believe any board construction materials can be adapted for 30 foot plus waves. You guys go ahead and spend the next 20 years working the bugs out of it, then get back to me. I just hate being let down after responding to hype and trends. And oh, by the way, its okay to like and use multiple board construction materials. I, nor anyone else, has to go all one way or the other. As a matter of fact, I have epoxy and poly in my quiver as we speak. My opinion is based on my own experience as well as that of others. XTR just seams like the same-old same-old epoxy of yesteryear.