Help! No matter what I try the epoxy separates off the pinline during gloss coat cureing. I was using acrylic and sanding it to death - still won’t stick. I tried a thin coat first just over the pin - better but still sucks. Allways a little bleed too. Question I have is Does the Zig pen do this? I would like to try one and do it this way:
Hot Coat sand to 220 - lay tape - use pen - pull tape - let dry - gloss w/ epoxy.
Is there any sanding of the line itself needed after drying? Will it bleed and seperate??? What about the protective coat of resin over the pin? Is this necessary still - it makes for a bump by the rail I don’t like?
If all else fails I will put them on last and spray over with acrylic. Don’t like that idea because they can be scratched off and are a raised bump on the deck and would prefer the finish of epoxy over cheap ass spray can stuff.
Howzit chriss, I have to say that I believe not all Zig pens are the same. I let a friend do some art on a board with a Zig, but it was not he same ones I use. It was one that had a plastic casing not a metal one like I used. It ran pretty bad so it must have been different type of ink in it. I suggest india ink. if you gooogle it you will find sited that sell many different colors, but if you are doing black you should be able to find it locally, Wal-mart, Ben Franklin are 2 stores that carry it in black. The fact that epoxy takes longer to set up might be the problem, but like I said before I am a poly guy.Aloha,Kokua
I had the same problem with trying to epoxy gloss over a appliance epoxy spray paint out of the can, pin line. AND be forewarned, it seperated off my screened lam. I did the cloth layup with opaque resin tint and epoxy the lam to the sanded finish so you could see it. It does not seem to be seperating off my home made ink jet lams.
Can you give me some advise on what tape works best for rail tape off with Epoxy. I am having the worst time with epoxy bleading under the entire tape off.
no offense Gdad,… then dont,… THINK it would be fine,… try it and let us know,… with EPOXY. Here is a run down of everything that has bled using the Resin Research EPOXY system,… for me.
-Sharpy fine point pen- trying to sign and size demensions on the sanded finish because you wont see it on the foam after an opeque color tint layup.
-A lam printed out on laser jet ink printer- started bleedn as soon as the Epoxy hit it. had to roll back the cloth, pull off the lam, and live with a bit of ink smudge in that area.
The seperation issue has got to be oil or wax (something like that?) in the paints being used as pin line. I am gritting my teeth as I write this, as I got more seperation on a epoxy glossed bottom that is in one small area, middle of board, right near the tucked edge of the rail. MMmmmm… oil from my fingers from moving the board from sand to gloss rack?? AAArrrrggg!
Masking tape issue for taping off for Epoxy??? anyone, anyone?
I am really begining to understand why PU is still King. Epoxy,… she is a real BITCH!!!
Howzit waveshop, I would imagine that 3M 233 or 233+ is the answer you are looking for. It is the tape of choice for poly work so it should work with epoxy also. Aloha,Kokua
Howzit waveshop - I had same problems - real bitch. Everyone tells you things that don’t work for sure - maybe so you will give up. You think maybe Greg Loehr should tell us how he pinlines his boards. India ink does not work - posca no - zig pen no - no no no no and so on.
Here is what I do now after trying everything else. A customer gets a clear board if I can. If they have to have colors and pinlines and all fancy they pay more and here is what I do.
After lam I lay down a very thick hot coat and sand it out to 400. Then I tape off for pinlines and use acrlic paint any kind will do. I use the liquitex from hobby store in the toobs. After pin is dry I sand the edges of it very gently to remove edge from tape. Then I spray the whole board with automotive laquer 3 coats make sick gloss.
Sharpie pens do bleed… but it all depends upon where in the process, and how long you let it dry. I have put sharpie on foam and it did not bleed, with sufficient dry time, but between layers you are asking for a black mess…
Never had a problem with printed graphics, maybe it was the paper you used, or too much ink - take the printer off ‘super best quality’
I have heard of oil from your hands messing with the bond but never experienced it, if you wash the board with soap and water after you sand the laps and even between lams if you dont sand there should not be an issue, but even still I cant see how that little amount of exposure could do that unless you just got done frying up some bacon and had oil all over your hand.
Never had too much of a taping issue that i didnt have coming to me, obviously too much resin combined with not pressing the tape properly will make it fall off. I use the high stick masking tape, never the blue tape because it is too damn expensive.
Epoxy will be your secret lover if you let her, and treat her with respect.
Liquitex water-based acrylic paint out of the tube, lightly sanded with 400 grit to scuff off the gloss, then gloss coat. It works with polyester and epoxy resins.
And, because it’s fairly thick, there are fewer problems with bleed-out under the tape.
Tape: 3M 233+. You can get it at automotive paint supply stores. Be sure to press it down good using your fingernail, the dull side of a razor blade, or a wooden tongue depressor.
thats cool greg, You are right on the non seperation issues under the cloth. I have already gotten that with a patch over the lam on the sanded finish. your d man on this. I will try the pin on the blank before lay up on my next epoxy. I just painted the pin on after gloss on the last one,… but it just doesnt have the effect I think we all know we want. Spray painted boards on top just dont show the craftsmanship.
I’ve yet to see a pen that doesn’t have either adhesion or running problems with epoxy (Azure or RR). I paint them using acrylic from the bottle (Michael’s, other craft stores). Do not use any gloss type or thin with water, just brush on enough to get it opaque. On opaque pintmented glass jobs, I epoxy baste the lap lines to fill the weave, sand and paint the lines. I normally put another layer of 4 oz clear over that (with the logos), so I don’t really hotcoat directly on them. Never had any problems this way.
Thanks Pete, That sounds good to me- i will try it. I had allways tried them on top of the glass and the gloss coat would ruin all. Either bleeding issues or separation of the epoxy over the line itself. Like you had run a greasy finger down the whole pinline before coating with epoxy. Aloha
still fighting with separation on pinlines that are on top of the hot coat to hide a cut lap of two different colors, you can’t put the tape under the lam. so you have to paint something on top. Please tell us what you recommend for useing with the RR as far as paint type, paint pen, epoxy with pigment, poly. to much miss-information on here. please help. Mahalo
Wow, I thought this was just me! So I don’t have any solid advise but I share your frustration. I have on a couple of boards gone back after the resin is just tack free and hot coated over the entire board again with another 6 ounces of resin. I am obviously not happy with this for economical, and added weight issues. Not to mention that I have to now sand most of this off.
I've had success with pigmented polyester resin pinlines under an epoxy gloss. I scuffed the pins with fine wet/dry sandpaper and wiped with an acetone rag. If there was any uncured pigment left on the rag, I wiped down again.
Hi Chris, I just pinlined an SUP using a wide posca pen with RR (CE - no additive) and had no problems. I did have problems several months ago, but decided to try again after seeing a number of epoxies from others done this way. The board had separate colors on each lam (deck inlay). I sanded and prepped the lap line where the two colors met, masked then basted the line with clear and sanded to 220. Taped it off with 3M blue using cheap 1/8" tape for the spacer, burnished it down with a mixing stick. Ran the pen down the line and pulled the tape right away. Heat gunned the line (be careful), and then scraped with a blade and guide curve the few places where there was some bleed. It sat overnight then was hotcoated on the deckside. I was careful of any hard brushing on the lines, but no smearing happened. Keep in mind that this was done on a basted lam, not hotcoat and all without Ad F. Maybe the heat gun evaporated any solvents in the ink which react with the epoxy, who knows. Some of the others who are using poscas told me that they spray over them with matte clear acrylic from a rattle can before glossing. Hope this helps.
