Bill,
I am interested in the set up and was wondering, does the dual setup decrease or increase a longboards nose riding performance?
Thanks
Tony
Tony,
Iâve never been asked that question, and have not ever considered the circumstance. I just donât know the answer. It could go either way. I think the answer will come, when someone actually outfits a board that they have good nose riding experience with. Nothing like good emperical data. I hate it when I donât know the answer!
Hey Bill, I think youâre rightâŚoh Fock it.
Maybe the box fins fetch more profit than the little triâsâŚalthough nowdays everything seems over the top in this economy. Iâm gonna make some of my own out of compressed cockroaches.
Tony, thatâs a really good questionâŚif the fins increase speed then your setting up to noseride has gotta be impacted on how you approach noseridingâŚthen I think if maybe you have a deep closed teardrop cooncave noserider that are notoriously slow enabling you to clock time up frontâŚmaybe the setup will change that scenario to afford a bit of speed but still with all that lift up frontâŚhmmmmmmmmmmm.?!
I have a 9â6" Parole that has a great deal of concave in the nose and bunch of rocker in the tail that rides pretty well at the points here in V-County. Beach breaks are hit and miss, on bigger days I get pushed up alot and have a hard time dropping in when it get more than a foot or two over head. That is the board I was considering trying it on.
I have another diamond tail 6â3" x 21 x 3 that I was going to try it out on, but that one I have not even hot coated yet. Have either of you done they dual set up with a smaller bitter plug or box in the middle for use with a twin or quad? If I have my way this board would be a 7 fin monster. But that maybe me getting a little over ambitious.
What is the spacing between the boxes? Butt them up or space them alittle bit?
Thanks for the input
Howzit Bill, This might not have been touched on for the dual fin set up. I use a 5.5' or 6' center fin with side biters on my longboards. What are your thoughts on using 2 of these shorter center fins and the sidebiters also . The reason I ask is it seems that the fins in the pics are taller and in the 7' to 8' or 9' size in the dual set ups.Your feedback is always respected and just another question from outside the box.Aloha,Kokua
Mike,
The first single foiled fins I did for the twin set-up, were in the 6 1/2 inch range. They worked fine, but I found that my personal preference is a pair of
7 5/8th inch ââBrewerââ fins. I think the set-up you describe, above, would work just fine. I set the fins on two inch centers. One inch on either side of the
centerline of the board. Fin size selection is a subjective thing, though too small or too large for a given board, will be readily apparent. In general,
any size fin that works as a single in the chosen position, will work better paired.
Afoaf,
Now that some time has passed, since the installation of the twin fins, have you managed to wring the board out in some larger waves? I don't recall if you had some single foiled fins available to you or not.
I havenât ridden it in anything over 3-4â point-type surf with head high facesâŚmy consensus was that single foiled fins were eratic and responded unpredicatbly (both ways).
I liked symmetricaly foiled better.
The comparison was made with the same Brewer template from Fibre Glas Fin Co. (I have all four of the fins if anyone wants to give them a whirl, or the board(s) for that matter).
It rides like a souped up single finâŚtight radius turns off the top and bottom maintained momentum.
This is the same on the big longboard I tried it on.
I have a template for the local beachies that I want to build around it.
Thanks again for your encouragement and insight.
Thanks for the kind words Bill - and for providing the inspiration to try this.
I've only ever made a couple of fins before attempting this one - but after first seeing this thread a couple of years ago I just couldn't get it out of my head.
I'm hoping to get it finished in time to take to Bali soon. I will be surfing it in an old home made small double ender style board which is based on the 7' McCoy shown in the images - minus 8" cut off the nose.
Cheers
Rohan
Thrailkill 2 in 1.
Not completely finished yet - a bit of clean up sanding and gloss coating still to be done.
Hopefully it will be strong enough.
Flat outsides and foiled insides as per Billâs instructions.
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Not completely finished yet - a bit of clean up sanding and gloss coating still to be done.
Hopefully it will be strong enough.
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RDM,
Even in the unfinished state, it is an impressive piece of workmanship. I like the treatment of the transition area into the base. It looks clean and business like. Looking forward to hearing more.
I rode my board (shown on the first page of this thread) with standard 9" cutaway fins because thats what I had. I didnât have any problems with the board in any of the waves I rode. The nose had a lot of belly so it didnât work well stepping way up there. Turned great and enjoyed riding it. I never added a leash holder to that board, so it says a lot about the confidence I have in it working good enough that wonât be swimming much.
One thing I didnât like is that I made the board just a bit wider than I can comfortably carry under my arm. Nothing bad about performance, just donât like carrying boards that donât fit under my arm. I havenât been riding that board for a while because I am using the fins on other boards.
I think this fin setup might be fun on a longer pig shape, where youâll be doing a lot of turning but could also run up to the nose and do some tip time. I think Iâll stick to fins closer to the rail for short boards.
Really great thread⌠props to all the seekers.
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RDM,
The angled junction of the two fin blades, with the base, may also act like a smaller version of the ''winged keel'' fin favored by Horan. Looking at the fin convinces me that you are going to have good time surfing it. The more I look at it, the more I like it. I hope your prototype holds together for you. In 1966 I did a winged tip single fin. The forces were so great the wings kept snapping off, and I lost interest in it. If yours breaks up, stick with it. I really think you are on to something, with your design.
"Considering will how long it takes to lay out and rout out two additional fin boxes, plus the risk if weekining the tail, it would be easier to fabricate a double fin that would fit into an existing single fin box."
My take on single fin boxes is that during the installation the stringer is almost completely routed through and can create a weak spot immediately in front of the box. I've seen many boards snapped right at that spot. It is possible that by routing box slots on either side of the stringer, the overall strength in the tail might be enhanced.
Fabricating fins can be a pain. The Velzy V-Fin is the only double fin/single tab fin commercially available as far as I know. Standard single fins are readily available worldwide.
Maybe Thrailkill is in on box distribution royalties? HAHA
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Maybe Thrailkill is in on box distribution royalties? HAHA
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I only WISH that were true!
I read somewhere that while George Greenough was experimenting with his fin placement he started out with conventionally placed twins but gradually placed them closer and closer together (with improvement) until he just decided that a single would work best. Maybe his assumption led him to bypass the closely spaced setup at which Bill arrived?
Sailors are aware of the 'slot' effect that occurs between main and jib. Some surfers swear by certain quad placements - maybe for the same effect? Perhaps something similar is occurring with the Thrailkill twin?
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I read the same thing John. Could also be that GGâs fins were high aspect ratio, while Bill uses the wide base of the Brewer.
I bought a 9" Brewer thinking that it would be OK since I use a 9" GG 4A. The Brewer was so big I returned it and got a 7.5. I still like the GG 4A and use it a lot. I now have a 7" 4A and the Brewer for small boards, but Iâm just beginning to appreciate multi fins boards again, especially the quad setup.
I have a blank waiting to become another 8â board, and Iâm thinking about a semi-gun, or an in between board so that my smaller 4A and Brewer can find a new home. How many guys build a board to fit a fin?
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RDM,
The angled junction of the two fin blades, with the base, may also act like a smaller version of the ''winged keel'' fin favored by Horan. Looking at the fin convinces me that you are going to have good time surfing it. The more I look at it, the more I like it. I hope your prototype holds together for you. In 1966 I did a winged tip single fin. The forces were so great the wings kept snapping off, and I lost interest in it. If yours breaks up, stick with it. I really think you are on to something, with your design.
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Yep, I thought the same (about the "winged keel") when I sketched this one up. I have a "winged keel" as well which I use when the conditions suit. I was a little unsure about "mixing" the two effects (your twin and horizontal control elements) into the one fin but figured there was only one way to find out.
And it's your design Bill - not mine !!! - I just stuck them together.
Speaking of the Velzy V-Fin, does anyone have some first hand experience with how they perform in short boards ? I'm guessing quite a bit (too much) of lift at higher speeds.