Bollocks on the Family Tree

Industry Talk
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Can you guys remind me of all this crap if I ever decide to make a list with peoples names? Thank you.

I don’t know SH*T but I’m having fun experimenting! SURF WITH ALOHA…

LOL @ Carve nalu’s comment

I am new to the surfing scene (missed out on the grom experience ) but going off of my limited experience. Of course I jumped into the mix quick.

Randy French may have an engineering edge, but all of the media articles written about him always show case his business savvy and quick entrance into watersport related markets, such as windsurfing when the popularity of that was rising (note: only the one’s I’ve read).

I give credit to Greg L because I’ve spoken to him about epoxy and learned off of him here and in person. Same goes for Bert because he has posted.

I don’t have ‘insider knowledge’ of the surf industry or its history, so my knowledge stops there in regards to the 70’s / 80’s scenes. Also I grew up in the 80’s / 90’s (and was in a different scene than surfing ).

But there still remains this:

Robert August ‘What I Ride’ Surftech 9’0 vs Rich Harbour 8’11 (Team rider) HP 1, with a bad, first time repair job (snapped off nose 3 inches down, deck stringer cracks to the foam, delams city, spots of rail “cancer” . . . etc) after the repair job, the HP 1, a high performance longboard was now in the cruiser longboard catergory :smiley:

The HP 1 blew everything away, riding, stability, turning, nose rides (well ok I could only cheater 5’s a foot off the nose tip :slight_smile: , handling (whitewash / getting out), paddling.

I had so much more fun on the Harbour.

Later I realize it was because of rocker, foiling / balance, fin placement, material etc of the Harbour that made it better than the RA.

Now the RA was of the first generation of surftech. I have not ridden the Terminator 2 series or newer surftechs since then, so if the shapes / flex / rockers etc have improved, I wouldn’t know. This is why I stated the ‘how not to make a composite epoxy board.’

I do understand first gen of anything especially something new (like surftech’s technology) would not be the first. Yet with Randy’s experience it shouldn’t have happened.

But given Randy’s credentials you have educated us upon, he should have had the knowledge to translate the different nuances of surftech composite technology to keep to the traditions of the shape. Robert August’s pu/pe shape of the ‘What I ride model’ also rode better than the surftech version, although it wasn’t as good as the Harbour, so perhaps Robert August’s mold might have not been the issue. The only reason why the ST RA doesn’t ride like pu RA (get that skunk off my surfboard).

Perhaps maybe the newer surftechs ride better, but I can’t go out and buy one.

Something about spending money and budgeting that prevents me from going all out and spending cash on new surftechs vs recommended / trusted shapes. And since I’m looking into shaping, only boards I will buy are to get good ideas, and the best ones seems to come from handshaped boards.

Shoot, man, even the 7’9 Bic surfed better than the 9 ft RA surftech, now I’m poring back over my surf journals upon the first year of my foray into surfing.

The thing about handshaped boards is they are truely works of art. I don’t go with the soul thing because boards do not live and have the breath of life, only they live when the surfer rides them. However, I have seen with my own two God given eyes a master at work (Jim Phillips) and it just awe inspiring to watch. Just like catching a perfect 5 foot wave with the right offshore Santa Ana rolling in. Then riding a board shaped like that. That’s what Solo is referring to (I think).

I can’t get that expertise out a machine popping something out and some finishing done by someone who has never rode a wave but is doing it because it pays well (I’m starting to realize doing things just purely for money is the fast way to uclers, life confusion, and pulling out hairs) . But I can, if I talk to a master and tell them about my surfing. I show him or her what I currently am riding or a video of my surfing (actually I’m the one blowing the set wave, but I hit the >> button ok and there you me catching that one!) and then it clicks.

Then comes a board tailored just for me. You can’t get that with a pop out. Of course a shaper might use a machine to mill the blank, then work on the details an finishing shaping it . . . Given a surfer who has limited money and a similar experience like mine, they will choose shapes that work best for them, in my case, handshaped or machine shaped and hand finished boards.

I don’t think its right to rag on someone because of what they ride or what they are wearing or what not, but I do believe in giving someone grief / or letting them know they breaching a rule, because they break surf etiquette.

I have seen some regulars on local shapers boards hassle surftech riders. It depends on what break you’re at. They get into a pissing match and it does open some waves.

All in all this thread has shown me:

The victor writes history (victor in combat, business, media coverage etc).

Personal experience plays a heavy role in perception of that history.

Arguements can happen w/out thread lock (now don’t start junk trolls!)

Release your inner grom

Carve Nalu makes sense.

Awesome dialog and some warm fuzzy agreements. Oh XBox 360 is set up. Whee!!

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As for what you think as art, lifestyle and hype I consider as my garbage, my choice and your confusion.

This would make a good caption at the bottom of your post.

In the words of Johnny Rotten

I could be wrong

I could be right

Johnny Rotten (PIL)

63

I just saw a post on the discussion thread about SUP’s

My, my, my! Lookie there, Crave Nalu rippin the waves new ones with a surftech. A picture is worth a thousand words indeed!!!

This guy is the perfect example of what I am talking about. He is doing it with out the BS. I looked at his web site and he has board pics of him with about 3/4" board left out of the water line when paddling back out. That is friggin pushing the envelope in design knowing what volume to package to his weight for optimal performance. I think I saw some 9’6" sup’s also.

In the sport of sup that is taking off all over I hear the statements like “I saw so and so doing that 40 years ago, it’s nothing new.” I guess they haven’t seen the same pics I am looking at of CN. This man has single handedly pushed this sport to extreme category with his designs. He would probably never admit it, but he has started an avalanche of possiblibties for this sport. What will his mark and memory be in history? CN wasn’t the wright brothers of the sport but he was responsible for the jet engine of the sport.

I perdict CN will be the most copied shaper of sup’s in the world for the next 5 years. I also wish the success of surftech to his business with none of the stigma.

I say all this because, Randy French, like all other innovators may have not been the first, but he took the technology to new heights. As a windsurfer Randy French shapes were know world wide whether solosurfer realizes it or not. Surftech boards, like any board, is a personal preference thing. I look at it this way. Randy French is personally responsible for the most surfers having fun at surfing no matter what thier skill level is.

I am sorry for all of you with the bad experiences on a surftech had to suffer such agony. At least it gave you a marker to judge your next board. But just think of all the ones who enjoyed the ride. Makes it all kind of worth it huh?

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I

I say all this because, Randy French, like all other innovators may have not been the first, but he took the technology to new heights. As a windsurfer Randy French shapes were know world wide whether solosurfer realizes it or not. Surftech boards, like any board, is a personal preference thing. I look at it this way. Never argued this point with you and it was not the basis of my original post. Yes…I am familiar with R.F. windsurfing stuff. I never cared…because I never cared for windsurfing. I used to like Sailing…but windsurfing was never my thing. To each his own. Randy French is personally responsible for the most surfers having fun at surfing no matter what thier skill level is. Well actually all the others shapers have a 45 year head start…but I see your meaning. Whether others surfer are having fun or not…has nothing to do with my article and why should I care about this statement anyway. Most of us who stick with surfing are having fun…thats why we keep doing it. I certainly feel no obligation to anyone for that matter. Surfing is not like some life or death spiritual journey and if it is…well…nuff said.

I am sorry for all of you with the bad experiences on a surftech had to suffer such agony. At least it gave you a marker to judge your next board. But just think of all the ones who enjoyed the ride. Makes it all kind of worth it huh? Again…why should anyone care if others have enjoyed the ride on a Surftech? I am happy for them…Why would it make it worth it? We all love to go surfing…Why make something more of it than it is. Which is my major issue with hype marketing…the mags…and institutions. They have an interest in selling new or repacked things so they can make a buck.

65

Check out the in the general discussion boardworkls verses surftech. Just more of what I am talking about. Surftech is consistant quality every time.

Man o man. for this 25 year old tech the boyz over at board works haven’t got the rails or box reinforcments figured out yet. FCS has finally listened to the eps crew and now offer high density foam inserts for eps boards. Golly miss molly, they should have consulted with Randy for an answer. I almost have the urge to go out and buy a quiver of surftechs after that cross section shot.

Randy French was world renown in the 80’s as a board builder. His windsurfers are awesome. Sailbaords are a bit more difficult to make than a good looking and proper performance surfboard. Lets see, hop in the time machine again. 1985… to make a shortboard or fish go to a clark foam outlet pick up the blank and do your thing.Pu/pe classice coming up. Two to three days if you take your time and you are finished. To make a sailboard…eps foam block, wirecut, handshape, reinforced inlays in multiple places without ruining the shape., vacuuming bagging, exact resiin measuring, keeping everything super light and super strong. These RF boards were in demand world wide in the 80’s. To suggest RF is some b league only locally known board shaper is just plain old stupid. For a guy who has nothing against RF, your comments would have me hate to see what you say about people you have something personally against. According to your logic, if you don’t care about something it is of no signifigance to the things you do care about. Go to general discussion and check out the cross sections of surftech and a competitor. Quality doesn’t happen by accident and selling 80.000 boards per year is no accident either. If they were crap they would not be in business no matter what hype or magazine promotes them. Comments from the baord repair people, like the board lady, speak for themself. The sailbaords are of consistant quality and to no surprise the surfboards are just as good. Are they the best there is? Nope, not by a long shot. Are they the best from a company that made 80.000 boards last year? Oh, yeah!!!

I re read your posts and you make it sound like RF was one lucky man who luckily applied a technology to surfbaords and they were luckily of good quality and luckily a bunch of pu/pe shapers signed on to have thier designs in epoxy. I have to give credit where credit is due. RF is a A+ league board builder period.

I would be totally interested in a search of this site on all comments regarding surftechs. I put my money on they are talked about in a bad or neutral manner much more than ever positive. I can’t take away or negate someone’s personal experience. But I will say just by the numbers of Boards surftech sells each year. The proportion of whinning about them on this site is of no reflection of the real satisfaction the owners of them have. If I hang out with a bunch of surftech haters I will think like them.

Any surftech appreciation out there???..(cricket sound)…can we argue about pupe and epoxy at least?

I am going for it, I am buying a surftech this week to support RF and maybe even buy the magazine they advertise in. The only actions I can control are my own, so that I shall just do!

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To suggest RF is some b league only locally known board shaper is just plain old stupid. For a guy who has nothing against RF, your comments would have me hate to see what you say about people you have something personally against. Ok…I have spoken with you in a respectful manner though you have taken repeted jabs at me. You are trying to hijack this thread and turn it into a thread about Randy French and Surftech or simply start a nasty debate. Go back an re read my original post. It’s about institutions and claims made by Surftech and Surfing. It’s about using some family tree to help promote themselves using the list that Kendell himself said they changed. Some on the list are not even shapers…but simply paid advertisers. I called bollocks on that. You want to turn this into a promotion of Randy French start another thread. As for having nothing against French personally. I stated that I think he is a bit arrogant and haughty with reference to his business and his business actions. His companies claims are all that you and I have been debating. I have been in the business and I have seen how he operates…my comments are strictly to that degree. I am not stating anything about R.F. on a personal level…I don’t know him well enough to make that determinatin. I wish Randy would come on here and type his own thread dealing with some of the stuff…but unless you have been in the surf industry and delt with some of these people you really don’t have a clue what your talking about …otay. As for him being a B league shaper…You don’t read very well do you. I stated that it had nothing to do with his ability or lack of ability…but the fact that outside of his area of California he was not well known as a shaper of “surfboards”. I should not have even used the term because it started this down the wrong path. There are many shapers not that well known who have had influence or have simply supplied their local areas with surfboards. On a personal note…I don’t like Randy’s shapes that much…others feel free to disagree. I could care less about windsurfing…not that it’s not valid…only that it’s not part of this conversation. This is no personal vendetta against French…I like to write about ideas. I love to go surfing…I don’t need Surfing magazine or Randy French telling me who the right influences are and who is the future of surfboards…because thats hype and nothing but a personal claim to sell something. You go ahead and burn incense at your alter to Randy French…I will keep my own personal view and you may by all means keep yours. According to your logic, if you don’t care about something it is of no signifigance to the things you do care about. See above… Go to general discussion and check out the cross sections of surftech and a competitor. I never denied the quality. Also…do that same cross section and see which one surfers claim ride better. I would say the Walden is probably the best selling model of all the popouts. Most surfers I know that ride popouts like the way boardworks ride better. Quality doesn’t happen by accident and selling 80.000 boards per year is no accident either. If they were crap they would not be in business no matter what hype or magazine promotes them. Really…Chevy is still in Business and they have been making inferior cars to Toyota for years. Dodge stayed in Business making crap for years…American garden tools stay in business making garbage that falls apart…Walmart stays in business selling clothing that falls apart within a year or two. Need I point out anymore folks that stay in business not making the best quality. Lets use a Surf company example. I used to watch Volcom literally fall apart sitting on the racks of my surf shop. That was some of the cheapest shit I have ever seen produced and yet look at where they are now. No sir…hype and marketing can compete with quality. Again…I think Surftech’s quality is fine…but also …again…it’s not the reason for the thread. I re read your posts and you make it sound like RF was one lucky man who luckily applied a technology to surfbaords and they were luckily of good quality and luckily a bunch of pu/pe shapers signed on to have thier designs in epoxy. I have to give credit where credit is due. Yes…I do think it was partly luck and yes we do have to give credit where credit is due. Randy French has been good at marketing and is obviously a solid business man. A Bunch of pu/pe shapers signed on for dollars and promises. some of them are very happy with the dollars and promises some of them are not. Ask Rich Harbour…

I would be totally interested in a search of this site on all comments regarding surftechs. I put my money on they are talked about in a bad or neutral manner much more than ever positive. I can’t take away or negate someone’s personal experience. But I will say just by the numbers of Boards surftech sells each year. The proportion of whinning about them on this site is of no reflection of the real satisfaction the owners of them have. If I hang out with a bunch of surftech haters I will think like them. Or…maybe it says something about a certian group of experienced and semi experienced surfers that have tried them. I suspect swaylocks gets thousands of hits. I am not a surftech hater…I simply don’t like the way they ride, the hype they push or the way I have seen them do business. Hate is a very strong word…I can’t think of anyone I hate. I agree with Randy on some of his outlooks in conversations I have had with him. If something changes and Surftechs begin to ride better…I may one day own one myself. No need though…I am satisfied with the shapers I work with in both epoxy and poly.

Any surftech appreciation out there???..(cricket sound)…can we argue about pupe and epoxy at least? Start another thread or even better go back and look for the hundred of other threads already started about that. If you want to debate institutions and false claims…this is the thread for that.

I am going for it, I am buying a surftech this week to support RF and maybe even buy the magazine they advertise in. The only actions I can control are my own, so that I shall just do! Great…I think thats just what you should do…whatever you want. I have enjoyed the debate…but it’s now time to get back on subject or let it go.

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8’6" Rusty desert island…that’s the one!!!

I don’t think I am stirring up anything, just correcting things you state as fact. My personal experience proves otherwise. So I disagree with your facts you state. As far as your initial post, I don’t read surfing magaizines so I will have to put some effort into reading for myself what you are talking about. That also makes me wonder what the circulation of this “sell out rag” actually is and how it really changes any view of any surfer, especially the elite thousands on this site. Wonder how many of those same elite have a surftech in the garage too? Why do you read the mags anyways? I am really confused about you now.

All I know is pretty soon I will have the desert island 8’6" model in my garage.

I haven’t bought a surfboard since 1982. I only know how to make them and sell them. Man, the new board stoke is taking me back 25 years. Kind of feels good too! I know I can make them better, but it’s my way to salute the man Randy French. Innovator, waterman and total package board builder. No government subsidies for his companies, but I sure have seen lots of talk from the domestic pupe builders asking for protection from the government against foreign built boards. The surftech is the toyota, the standard, the one to match. Again you are blinded to the facts and truth for reasons I am not willing to persue.

You can haver the last word. It’s time for me to bring in the new year…the year of the desert island surftech.

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I have ridden both the poly DI and the Surftech version.

They are night and day.

I could not stand the surftech model. It was more like Stifftech.

Sorry OTAY (whoever you are) but please give it a rest.

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“The surftech is the toyota, the standard, the one to match.”

thats actually funny.

surftec=pooltoy

bouncy bouncy bonce bounce :wink:

70

Sorry I know I said It would be my last word, last post but I looked up basswave(whoever you are?) in the phone book and was unable to find a number so sorry for this post.

Thanks for your input but for the next4 1/2 months I will be working in Hawaii where the smooth face, good wind direction and large swell has a high probability of occuring. So I think the surftech will work fine. Also having heard every argument against epoxy over the last 2 1/2 decades I realize personal preference palys a big role in favorite boards. It is amazing to me how my workplace has a storage area full of pu foam( lots of it clark too) but when the people check out the epoxy customs in the showroom, minds are chaged easily.

If you live in Hawaii I am interseted in your surftech DI if you can possibly part with it. I will even trade you money for it.

71

That was a funny line but on so many deeper levels than you are possibly able to understand.

My favorite pooltoy shot is of carve nalu bottom turning prior to 3/4 in the barrel in brown water on a red surftech. I kind of have a feeling popey you have never experienced such a thing. Your day job of pool boy does however make you an authority on poolworthy devices. Did I ever mention that the quality surftech finishing process does include chlorine resistance so you can use these in the arizona wave pool complex popey.

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Sorry I know I said It would be my last word, last post but I looked up basswave(whoever you are?) in the phone book and was unable to find a number so sorry for this post.

Also having heard every argument against epoxy over the last 2 1/2 decades I realize personal preference palys a big role in favorite boards. It is amazing to me how my workplace has a storage area full of pu foam( lots of it clark too) but when the people check out the epoxy customs in the showroom, minds are chaged easily.

I am interseted in your surftech DI if you can possibly part with it. I will even trade you money for it.

To address your statments in the order that they appear.

If you feel that you have to find me in the phone book. Please feel free to PM your number I will guarantee you a call back from me. I do not hide behind the anamitity of the internet and a forum handle. I’m in some of the pics that I have submitted in the board resources. that I have posted so feel free to give me your reply in person if you like at a tradeshow or whatnot.

So you have heard argument against epoxy. Well I can see you defending it if your paychecks say Surftech somewhere on there. Please enlighten me to your showroom. I’m quite the board junkie myself and prehaps I would by intrested in a Epoxy custom. Where is it located?

The Surftech 8’0" DI I had (that was a shop board alreadt with my option to buy if I liked it) when right back there I delt with after 3 sessions.

To be honest I wanted to like it. I wanted it to have an some sort of advantage so I can say well it at least has “X” so I can stand by it. It did not.

Cheers to you OTAY

-B~

73

thats funny too.

you should go on the road with that act.

listen.ride what you like.

i think they are pool toys .you dont.thats fine.

why not go one step further.

http://www.inflatable-surfboards.co.uk/

74

Why don’t the three of you get a room? The red and blue type is a nice touch. Breaks the monotony.

75

i think we are starting to sound like that buggs bunny episode…is to,is not,is to,is not,is to.

in the middle buggs switches and screws the other guy up.

is to.

76

You have an 8’0" surftech DI??

I can only get an 8’6" or 9’ model. I also found out the owner of our shop has a surfing school that uses softtops and we can order the surftecs at wholesale which I think is 30% off. This year is getting better and better.

I salute randy french at 30% off.

We are not allowed to pimp the factory on this site. I never have recived any monies from surftech but have had lots of memories of enjoyment from my randy french seatrend windsurfer useage.

I am busy through May in Hawaii. If you are from california, if you pick me up at the airport on May 10th at LAX and give me a ride a little bit north we can hook you up with an epoxy custom for regular price. No trial period, cash and no give backs. Man, can you imagine having the opportunity to try out a board first and then decide if you want it or not. Only a person who has the ability to crank out 80,000 boards per year can offer that service!

77

Oh, I understand now. You were saying “pool toy” not in a deragatory way but in a “ride whatever you like way”.

Thanks for your much appreciated input.

I think you don’t have a clue, you do. that’s fine.

Why not go one step further.

www.ihatesurftechakapooltoysandanyonewhoridesthemespeciallythepoorgromswhoifeelsosorryfor.com

78

is not.

:slight_smile:

79

Wait,

There’s a smurftech (they use Smurf Blue color on some of their boards) . . . Ok let me restart it and be civil. All laughs aside.

There’s a surftech factory, in the US, where you can walk in and custom order a surftech (Dims you specify, with a specific rocker, type of fins, outline, foil n thickness, and amount of flex, and type of fins you want?) or is it handshaped epoxy by Randy French from him directly (not surftech but RF brand)?

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You have an 8’0" surftech DI??

I can only get an 8’6" or 9’ model. I also found out the owner of our shop has a surfing school that uses softtops and we can order the surftecs at wholesale which I think is 30% off. This year is getting better and better.

I salute randy french at 30% off.

We are not allowed to pimp the factory on this site. I never have recived any monies from surftech but have had lots of memories of enjoyment from my randy french seatrend windsurfer useage.

I am busy through May in Hawaii. If you are from california, if you pick me up at the airport on May 10th at LAX and give me a ride a little bit north we can hook you up with an epoxy custom for regular price. No trial period, cash and no give backs. Man, can you imagine having the opportunity to try out a board first and then decide if you want it or not. Only a person who has the ability to crank out 80,000 boards per year can offer that service!

Let me clarify.

I do not have a 8’0" DI surftech I tried a shop board owned by a friend of mine that offered it to me if I like it.

As far as a 9’0" DI from s-tech…Hmm…That is not publicily offered but then again if you have an affliation/(work for) with them I can understand why you have one and others do not have that option.

I do not live in Cal. HOWEVER I belive I will be in southern California during that time.

So tell me…you mention epoxy.

Who shaping these epoxys?

Customs? What are they T2s? Or something else please explain?

Where and what is this showroom?

If you are serious and these things are the best thing out there and you have this experience then PM me.

PS If you are going to be in Florida next week at the expo?

Convince me I would want to ride a s-tch over Campbell Bro, Beal, Rawson, (current shapers boards that I ride)

PSS. For the record I’m not against EPS or XTR I ride/own both types of foam technologies