"et tu, Brute!" = Surftech Rusty @ ASR show

Industry Talk
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for the new swaylopedia dictionary section …

releasing a surftech model = im retiring …

:wink:

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survival in this business in todays enviroment means your either doing something real different or your on a bigger team .

The trick there, as always, is to make sure you are part of the team and not the equipment! There will always be room for artists in any endeavour, but when the craft is lost to process the future becomes uncertain. Look no futher than NASA trying to put men back on the moon. It is going to take a decade to do something again that we already did over 30 years ago.

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A picture to go with the thread.

Click attachment. Didn’t want to put it inline with over a 1000 views on this thread already.

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I’ve been seeing ALOT more locally made epoxy boards lately as well from a variety of local shapers. Not that I think Chinese boards aren’t here, it’s just I don’t see the numbers of people riding them that would warrant any concern. Maybe the proximity to the RR factory and the multiple shops in this area that solely turn out epoxy boards has isolated this area a bit.

I have tried to make the point many times that given a reaonable choice, serious surfers will continue to spend their money on better domestically built custom equipment. Tech is the way to continue to survive and there is no other way at this time. Epoxy builders outside the “power centers” are expanding their businesses while the poly guys are struggling. Thanks Lawless for making my point.

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On a more positive note, Greg Noll, Lost, and Linden, say “No way”, to outsource production.

No offense intended but I thought Linden had a line of Boardworks boards for a few years now.
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the surfboard industry is just evolving to cater for the first generation of retirees …

There’s a big threat/opportunity right there in that statement. How many small local surfshops are owned by “Baby Boomers” looking to retire? I can see a cashed up retail company sweeping down the East coast of Australia buying them all up and building a chain (if it isn’t already happening) So then you’ll have another powerful player joining the game.

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big localised markets like japan will swing toward mass produced composites i think.the irony of large labels signing deals with cobra is that ski and snowboard and clothing/adventure companies will be signing there own deals as well.so bye bye rusty hello burton or the like.

its possible because theres always a new generation with different attitudes.i was reading an article on the net that japanese generally only buy snowboards and skis from japanese companies with emphasis on purchasing seasonaly. More and more boards with less and less producers. With surfing more and more being associated in a generic outdoors extreme image led industry… the writing could be on the wall for some big players …a top 16 could end up riding a board produced in thailand with a big budget label from an unrelated industry.

ps excuse my rant i dont normally post on stuff like this (its a pretty vague observation on my part)

more interested in design stuff

honest

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With surfing more and more being associated in a generic outdoors extreme image led industry… the writing could be on the wall for some big players …a top 16 could end up riding a board produced in thailand with a big budget label from an unrelated industry.

ps excuse my rant i dont normally post on stuff like this (its a pretty vague observation on my part)

Far from being a vague observation, I think it’s absolutely going to happen. Pro surfing is about surfers being paid to endorse products. They can be competition surfers or whatever they call the guys who just go on photo trips. If the whole point of being a pro surfer is to make money, what difference should it make where the money comes from? Moral and ethical concerns are limited to ancillary issues. Younger generations will never have known any other mindset than to sell out to the highest bidder. While that might be a horror show to those from earlier eras, that might be normal to younger people.

Cha cha changes…

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I bought a pair of shoes, made in china.

A DVD player, made in china.

A tee, made in china.

A car, made in Korea.

A coffee machine, made in china.

A plate, made in china.

A bed, made in china.

A computer, made in china.

Some tires for my bike, made in Thailand.

My bike, made in china.

Then I went to buy Surfer journal, and saw the ad of this R’ guy, telling me all

About personalized equipment…………………………………………….

How the hell on earth I gonna send my size to Thailand ?

Please advise!!!

Progress, my A*&^&, they progress, we regress…….or regret.

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big localised markets like japan will swing toward mass produced composites i think

What you mention may happen. But I suspect it will happen in the USA way before Japan. In Japan, surfboards are seen as treasures. They don’t mind paying high prices for custom boards or boards shaped by famous shapers. Japanese surfers do not seek or value low prices when making a surfboard purchase (nor any other product for that matter). On the contrary, if a shaper decides to compete on price and lowers his, surfers will begin to look down on his boards and think ‘these boards must not be as good as the others that cost more’.

Although it is a trendy market, it is a terribly brand conscious one. For them to swing to mass produced composites will only happen if famous American and Australian and Japanese shapers push their popouts as their main boards and only if pros start surfing them. Otherwise, the Japanese will hold out for what they feel is the authentic surfboard. The need to have the “proper” equipment and clothing for any activity is a halmark of Japanese culture. For “sporting goods”, the definition of “proper” is largely determined by what the “pros” are using.

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Quiksilver now own Ski/Snowboard maker Rossignol. A lot of composite R&D in skis. Quiksilver also make surfboards (in Australia anyway). If they decide there’s a market for new tech surfboards and they need to squeeze more value out of Rossignol, you might see Quiksilver entering the market with new technology. That said, ski makers don’t have a great track record, Salomon weren’t hugly successful with the S-core.

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The Japanese market is far more sophisticated than that.

Japanese surfers are far more sophisticated than their US counterparts. Japanese surfers are far more sophisticated gearwise than American surfers.

They have pure respect for our shapers. They fly them in put them up buy them their meals and pay top dollar for the blanks they shape while there. And the lucky shapers that have these deals go 4+ times a year. That’s love.

Plus the more underground you appear the more they want.

I have nothing but respect for the Japanese surfers.

Underground here means untouchable.

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Mark, by more sophisticated than “that”, do you mean more sophisticated than the way I described it or the way Silly thinks they might change to?

Because I don’t think there was anything unsophisticated about how I described their surfboard market (taken from my years living and surfing there and interactions with the surf shops and magazines there). But if there was something you feel was inaccurate about how I characterized it, I’d be interested to hear about it. BTW, I’m not sure I agree with your statement about being underground. Your, basically contradictory, statement on the famous shapers being flown in jives with my experience though.

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“the definition of “proper” is largely determined by what the “pros” are using.”

“The need to have the “proper” equipment and clothing for any activity is a halmark of Japanese culture. For “sporting goods”, the definition of “proper” is largely determined by what the “pros” are using.”

That is what you said. Now I’ve never been there, but

my experience marketing a new product there was that underground connected with a big name sells. I stumbled on this combination, but the owners of another fin company confirmed it for me. Underground translates to the absolute latest undiscovered thing. They don’t scoff at something new if it’s been endorsed. And if you have a world champ to endorse it bingo. Their market conscioousness is far greater than just what Kelly rides. Though KGrip sells big there, so did MVGs till the bubble burst.

What about their wetsuits? How does that fit the endorsee model?

Ah, what do I know, I never lived there.

This is too heavy for me.

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Because I don’t think there was anything unsophisticated about how I described their surfboard market (taken from my years living and surfing there and interactions with the surf shops and magazines there).

Based on a what a cousin told me from his seven years in Japan, that country indeed has very sophisticated consumers.

I’m not sure, however, but that “sophisticated consumer” genreally applied might be an oxymoron…it seems to me that the more one lives to shop the more vulnerable to fashion one might be. The absolute cutting edge consumer (Jeepers, another oxymoron?) might key off the hard core enthusiast, but that almost always dilutes by the time it hits the mainstream even in subcultures, frequently helped along by the hard core looking to make hay while the sun shines.

Here’s a concept for Japan: Chinese-made acid-splash bellyboards! Cheaper than surfboards, pretty, and they travel on busses and trains much easier. Also don’t take up much room in the apartment.

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John…

Nice job on your homework!

In my “day job” I work with communications systems along with microwave, fiber optics, digital transmissions and so forth. I only mention this because I have worked with many radomes of various sizes and shapes.

Having said that, I simply wanted to interject the notion that concludes one type of surfboard construction was better than another. I think one can see advantages in all types of construction, some are more complex than others, but the end result is still a surfboard! The end goal for me is to utilize materials and technologies applied in a different way to build a high quality well crafted product. I take a lot of pride, as I’m sure everyone does, when building a hand crafted surfboard or any hands-on product.

I think building a hollow surfboard out of carbon fiber and aluminum honeycomb is a challenge. Not only in building the board itself, but designing the shape, to building the necessary tooling and understanding the materials and lament structure. As with conventional board building, I am constantly changing and modifying the lament structure to better emulate the best flex patterns. Feedback from those that ride the board is imperative! All boards and technologies will continue to evolve if advancements are to be made. Mistakes and failures are just as important as the successes. The question I have is, who will be doing the development of the new technologies? R & D is very expensive and time consuming, so will the major players be willing to develop new technologies, or simply license shapes to others in order to make short term gains. Looks like a history lesson in the making!

The whole process has its challenges, but also has its rewards. Watching someone surf on something you built with your hands is a very gratifying feeling, regardless of what materials were used to make it.

I have rambled on a bit here, but only wanted to mention the fact that the Aviso, Pope, Hydro Epic and KOLSTOF boards are just different. The cost of production and materials is much higher and the skills are different, but in the end, there still just surfboards!

Ken

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Now I've never been there, but my experience marketing a new product there was that underground connected with a big name sells.

I think we discovered where our minor disagreement arises from: If a big name is connected to something, I don’t consider it underground. If it has a big name attached to it, I agree that the Japanese will buy it. That’s what I said initially.

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Oh yeah, I’m big time.

You must be smoking crack.

Disagreeing with me using your opinion based on a guess against v my personal marketing experence is pure nonsense.

You’re just guessing and no money at risk behind what you say.

Get back to me after you try and penetrate the Japanese surf market with your own original idea and marketing plan. With some succcess.

Otherwise.

You’re just annoying me.

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Dude, no disrespct, but didn’t you say you haven’t even been there? That doesn’t mean you are automatically wrong of course, but you should at least be a little more open to the possibility that you don’t have it all figured out quite yet based on marketing just one product there. I also wonder if you speak the language or if all your experience has been through mediators or in English. This will make a big difference.

What makes you think I’ve based my views on a guess? Nothing could be further from the truth.

To give you some idea of where I’m coming from, I spent most of the 90s living/working/surfing in Japan, my wife is Japanese, I visit regularly and still conduct business there (recent trip was on skateboard distribution/marketing for one of my side projects: http://dangersticks.com).

While living there I published a music and art magazine in Tokyo (and wrote for other Japanese and American magazines), played in several ‘underground’ bands, produced and promoted a few music albums of our and other Japanese bands’ music. I know several surf shop owners, knew a Brazillian that published a surf magazine there, have met several pro surfers based in Japan (some Japanese, some Brazilian), and had the pleasure of meeting and getting advice on surf industry marketing from one of Japanese earliest surfers and the founder of its first ever surf shop.

I have done marketing for several products and services both while living in Japan and for the Japanese market after I returned here to California, worked for a Japanese-owned/managed internet startup building products for that market, have done several packaging design projects for the Japanese market, have localized websites for that market, done market research projects for Motorola on the Japanese cellphone market (including extensive testing of how the typical marketing phases here in the USA of innovator, early adopter, early majority, late majority, and late comers differs in Japan in regards to the percentage of sales and shape of the bell curve produced: directly related to what we are talking about here).

Oh, and for what it is worth, I am more or less fluent in Japanese (it’s our language at home).

In other words, I’m not talking out of my ass like you seem to assume, and I’m not basing my views on a single experience, but on the last 15 years of business done in and with Japan. Perhaps I should have given my credentials up front (though my profile does in fact list “Designer, Skateboard company owner, Japanese business consultant”). Or perhaps you shouldn’t have assumed I’m just guessing or that I’m smoking crack.

Either way, there is no need to get all excited about it. We should just post our experience and views and let people take it for what they want.

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Underground translates to the absolute latest undiscovered thing. They don't scoff at something new if it's been endorsed.

BTW, this above is very accurate. The only thing I disagree about is that something can be both “underground” and “endorsed”. Without the endorsement, you will have a very hard time getting anything shockingly new adopted by the Japanese market. They are much less adventurous when it comes to trying new products or wanting to be ahead of the curve than the U.S./European market. They need that extra push of the product being popular in the usa/australia/europe first to get them to try it. Then they don’t mind being the first in Japan to try it, sure: that would make them cool. But they aren’t open to the risk of being the first in the world to try a new product. (exception: technology products, especially those specific to Japanese lifestyle)

So my advice (normally I charge for this stuff! ha!) to anyone marketing surf/skate gear in Japan is to wait until your product is well received elsewhere, or you have pros using it, before you tackle Japan.

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“You must be smoking crack.”

Please check any personal attacks related to drug use, etc. at the door. Thanks!