Hahahahahahahahaah - Walmart, mmmm, tarps, mmmm, reality, mmmm
So are these Standard molded going to be epoxy or polyester??? If it’s polyester, the king of the epoxy surfboards is selling out.
would any board builder on this site actually let any of thier children ride an artery slicing sharp finned chinese popout standard molded board???
Bert’s journey to the large establishment has been full of compromises from name changes to fin system choices and who knows what else. It’s a huge secret technology right???
Most board builders on this site are anti-establishment backyarders. Not in it for the money, but the money feeds the kids and pays the bills. There is nothing wrong with the satisfaction of supporting your family through a job of any kind. That’s why mowing lawns and landscaping can be wothwhile.
I am grateful for my garbage man and the service he provides. If he ever stops I will notice quickly. Will this new surfboard making plan change my life? Wake me up when they are on the racks so I can make an effort to notice.
Why are you and Greg so afraid to say “Yeah, we’re going to Asia to make money”? It’s how you spend the profit that defines character in my book. Plowing it back into a domestic high performance product is great. Buying houses in Idaho and Maui; that’s fine too. Just be ready for some crap from the peanut gallery. You and Greg put your asses on the line, you deserve the rewards. To dance around the profit factor just seems silly to me.
The good board builders out there are not going to go out of business, nor are the garage guys and their suppliers. But like Jay said, they are going to have to charge a realistic price ($800-$1,000) for a quality product and market it in a different way. If they don’t, well I’ve heard that a Skill 100 can do a pretty good job on a hedge…
I’m going to be real selfish here. I’m not as worried about a few shapers having to alter their careers as much as being worried about a flood of “floaters” on cheap indestructable surfboards clogging the lineups. What, 500,000+ surfboards are going to get built by the Asian factories in the next couple of years? Where are they going to go?
I paddled out at Pleasure Point last November. As nice a day as I can remember in SC. 4-6’ swell and at least 1,000 people stretched out from Sewers to Privates. I saw Randy French near the outside peak, drifted up and nodded a hello. I looked around at everyone bumping Surftech rails and said with a smile “Congratulations!” He gave me a shrug and paddled away. It’s coming to a beach near you…
Why are you and Greg so afraid to say “Yeah, we’re going to China to make money”?
Maybe because they are not going to China?
Last time I checked Asia consisted of more than just China.
Let me check again.
Yup. Still got a lot of other countries to choose from.
Keep guessing.
We all know that companies are making big profits by using cheaper labor in Asia. It is good business sense.
More jobs for people in poorer countries more affordable product for the consumer.
What really shits me though is when in reality its the people in poorer countries get exploited and the products aren’t really that affordable. One of the reasons it is more expensive to manfacture in western countries is being able to abide by the occupational health and safety rules. Which are in place to protect citizens from harm.
Western companies that have products made in asia where employees are not being looked after to the extent they are in at the least there own country are exploiting those workers.
Many companies outsource to other asian companies and leave the day to day running of the business to them which includes the welfare of workers. Washing there hands with the issue of workers rights.
What a cop out!
On the TV tonight in Australia there is a documentary on this subject.
Here is the speal from the TV Guide. The channel is SPS.
Bert you should watch it.
[/url]08:30 pm <a href="http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/" class="bb-url">DOCUMENTARY - A DECENT FACTORY </a> In an increasingly global economy, more corporations are 'outsourcing' their production to countries with cheaper labour costs and less legal protection of workers' rights. Some corporate managers, whether out of sincere moral concern or because they must respond to the considerations of investors and shareholders, are attempting to balance profit-making with social morality. Nokia: A Decent Factory focuses on the efforts being made by Nokia, the Finnish electronics firm, which sends a team led by two business ethics advisors to examine conditions at a Chinese factory that supplies parts to Nokia. The film documents in detail their inspection of the plant, guided by its European and Chinese managers. During their tour, the Nokia team investigates working and safety conditions, payroll records, and potential environmental hazards. They also conduct interviews with the factory managers as well as several of the young Chinese female employees who work and live in dormitories on the site. The advisors' final report to Nokia managers, which exposes numerous violations of even the less stringent Chinese laws on minimum wage and working conditions, confronts Nokia with the dilemma now facing an increasing number of Western firms - how is it possible to balance the profit motive with a sense of social responsibility? (From Finland, in English and Mandarin, with English subtitles) CC WS
So to the Firewire people.
Are you going to look after your asian workers? How are you going to balance profit motive with a sense of social responsibility?
Cheers, JDHOGG
Thanks for the link … this was written just after the guy visited China. He wanted to see first hand. He did! He came back … mulled it over … and quit.
We are doing EXACTLY what he suggested.
Will, we own the game with domestic production? We think so.
Will we compete with ST? You BET!!
“Quality, Value, Image … that’s what it’s all about.”
“Raise the technical bar.”
“Sell the same thing they sell, for more money, and your history.”
There’s nothing I can add …
[
Maybe because they are not going to China?
Last time I checked Asia consisted of more than just China.
Let me check again.
Yup. Still got a lot of other countries to choose from.
Keep guessing.
===================================================
Exactly. Asians do surf.
Quote:
Will, we own the game with domestic production? We think so.Reality just dictates where business must go in today’s world.
Making surfboards is seen by these guys as “business”. And “business” motivations are driving the ship.
Surfboard shaping should be about only doing as much “business” as you needed to do to be able to live and go surfing. Not these guys. Their goal is to dominate the market, both for domestically produced boards and now for Asian made boards too!
What turns a surfer into a businessman? Is it that surfing just isn’t fun anymore once Pipe becomes a “boring wave”? Whatever it is, it’s disgusting and goes against every single thing surfing has taught me about life.
I don’t see how they can be so stoked and proud of their plans to dominate the market and thefore further destroy the tradition of surfers getting surfboard from local shapers who surf most of the day and shape a little after that.
Wouldn’t any real surfer want to nurture that traditional lifestyle, to even expand it and have a higher percentage of boards bought from that kind of shaper. They would not begin high-production operations designed to grab market share from the modest surfer/shaper.
I can hear the comeback already: we’re not killing that tradition, it’s already dying because of asian competition. Bullshit. It’s the concept of big factory production that is killing it: be it in san diego, or china. It’s the concept of promoting surfing as a “sport” to the type of people who buy shiny, fancy things that are marketed with claims of high-tech features that’s killing the tradition (and crowding our lineups with people practicing a “sport” - god, that’s such an ugly word).
We need fewer surfers, more local shapers, more slackers surfing all day and shaping as little as possible and just making the rent and putting gas in the beat up pickup truck. The world is a much better place with that sort of guy around!
We need fewer factories, fewer imports, fewer investors, fewer guys trying to become business moguls.
meanwhile if anyone in nz wants a custom composite come and see me.
ive decided to go into business part time making boards for mates and interested parties
i plan to do 2 to 4 boards a month and they start at 950nz
i have a label and t shirts on the way
and can gurantee a lighter and more durable custom surfboard
than whats available off the shelf at the present time
thanx again bert and greg for the technical knowhow you have shared with us all
good luck in your business venture.
im looking at a old woolshed by the local break
and have got a new crewman with a natural flair for shaping these things
weve been playing with a airbrush and digital imaging
and can have cores and blanks cnc hot wire cut to the customers specs.
domestic production yahoo
don’t all you guys and gals have anything better to do to help make the world a better place than this ongoing mumbo jumbo?
once you truly understand your overall petty insignificance to the overall big picture of life and death the you can really focus on doing some good where it really counts.
Anyone happen to make a monetary donation to Mike today or do you just enjoy hogging his bandwidth?
I hope the soon to be biziillionaires here drop him a hundred grand or so for the soapbox he’s provided for their cause…
earn your way…
earn your pay…
Quess who said these???
And they want to open shop in S.D.???
"as far as other countries exploiting there populations…i wouldnt be to quick to point the finger…im sure many americans are enslaved to financial institutions ,have dead end 9 to 5 jobs are one of the 50% divorce rate who live in the counrty with the highest crime rate ,with the most amount of homeless people ,who watch tv to be fed propaganda about freeing enslaved people of another culture,which then gives bush the public support to do whatever he can to ensure the all consuming american way of life …at the expense of any nation who has resources america wants be they cheap labour or oil… "
"surftech you guys are clowns stop copying polyester /pu coz your gonna give epoxy boards a bad name … "
"im in the industry and rely on making and selling surfboards to pay my bills and feed my family … "
"you have to market crap, quality sells itself… "
“Quality, Value, Image … that’s what it’s all about.”
“Raise the technical bar.”
Thumbs up from our camp !
Regards,
Roy
id be interested in a production manager job if you guys set something up in japan.
or nz
i have excellent puter and small business admin skill
can use fotoshop freehand webeditors and av programs
ive managed and trained staff in a production environment in the jewellery industry
and have high personal standards and a strong sense of loyalty
have good skills with my hands and have an aptittude for most trades.
i would be shooting for around 65,000 to 70,000 a year.
my wife is fluent in both english and japanese and i can speak basic japanese.
so waddya reckon
i got another offer as a porn star so if ya want me ya betta get in quick
Yell out when you’re in business. My latest poly board is 12 months old and looks like a piece of crap.
Karl
am i missing something ???
you start out in a line of work where one day you say , " hey i think i can run my own business "…
so you give it a go , after a few ups and downs things are rolling , 2 boards becomes 4 , 4 becomes 8 you get the point …
at what point do you start turning customers away ???
because you say thats it , a limit to production , from now on either the list gets longer or people will have to go elsewhere ???
where ???
where ???
what would you do if you had a business where 9 out of 10 people walked away ,because they werent willing to wait the year for there custom ???
yet they begrudgingly went up the road and got a board for half the price in 2 weeks …
wouldnt it make sense to try and produce more boards to service that demand ???
but in the process of offering high end performance product , you now totally killed off the grommet market because you were out of there price range…
ok so we could offer groms a standard p/u ??? (choke , gasp , cough)
or we could offer them something lighter ,stronger and closer in construction to the surfboard they will be ordering as a custom as they progress …
our molded tech is totally unique and was developed by others who have been incorparated into the company , its about offering a choice …
one will be premium product , custom and locally made , thats our core business …
but in terms of future core business , its the next generation …
thats where having a lower priced groms board will get these guys in the water …
one thing a lot of small builders seem to forget …
having lower priced entry level boards, grows the base of the triangle , this then creates more demand up top for the custom guys , there posistions are solidified at the top of the triangle …
what has been my argument all along ???
that asian imports are ruining the surfboard industry ???
no that was never my argument …
it was that asian imports were coming in with better tech , so unless the industry stepped up with better tech ,local stuff , crew would start prefering a molded epoxy board over a custom made p/u …
are surftechs cheaper than a p/u???
face it , they are molded and molded oozes kook , yet now your seeing seasoned long time surfers , core surfers actually riding and prefering them ???
why ???
my other argument was that all the other major labels have been quick to brand boards and asian molded tech , that they dont even make them selves and they dont understand , but what they have really done is jeopardise there local p/u production …
because as a guy progresses from a durable epoxy molded board ,with a feel and performance style hes become accustomed to , the last thing he will want is a disposable , heavier p/u …
so we are offering a molded board , different, yet with similar characteristics to what we actually make as a custom …
who out there doesnt make a cheaper grommets board ???
maybe seconds blanks , the cheapest fabrics , no finish coat …
so why the effort to make a groms board cheap ???
because you want him to come back for his next one , you want to keep him as a customer …
are we really doing anything different ???
the bottom line is we are building boards , with the technology that people want in a custom but cant get …
we are building boards where the demand outstrips supply …
im truly sorry that so many others in the industry couldnt see it coming …
hey ive been highlighting it for years , this opportunity that ive witnessed emerging and an insatiable demand for newer tech …
so i will spell it out one more time …
were not producing boards in china …
we are producing custom made sandwich boards in volume on both the gold coast and san diego …
and we are in the process of trying to develop to production stage a cheaper groms board with similar tech , molded and hopefully made in thailand , but at this stage both the san diego and gold coast factories have our full attention …
basically im doomed either way around here …
for years everyone (everyone being other status quo board builders)gave me shit because i was pushing something different , so then i take a new tack in life and almost buckle under the constant shit being thrown and decide ah forget it im going surfing , so then i get shit for having something so unique that everyone wants and i get accused of wasting an incredible opportunity by deciding to surf my life away and turn my back on the business world …
now ive decided to get back on my bike and give crew what theyve been begging me for , and now im getting shit for expanding my business and bringing in others with a similar passion to form a team and get it out there …
the bottom line is im doing my thing , and my thing is the surfboard industry , making and designing boards , helping crew to enjoy the ocean , like an artist or a musician , the knowledge and skills ive learnt over the years i can now use to reach a wider audience , just like a group of musicians , youve already met and know some of the other guys in the band , were all passionate surfers , just like a passionate musician …
ive read some of the worst shit on this thread , but im also no stranger to getting shit either …
you guys can say what you want , the bottom line is im pursuing my passion …
im just glad i wasnt one of the guys who surfed all day and done some work each night , who drove my rusty surfers car and who put more importance on getting good waves instead of doing something with my life …
dam ! i was one of those guys …
guess you can do both , who would have figured ???
regards
BERT
Am I missing something? Just out of curiosity, why San Diego? Why not Australia? Isn’t that where your unsatisfied demand is? all those other 9 out of 10 customers lined up and turned away? And aren’t you dialed into the surf conditions there? If its not about the money, why aren’t you helping out all those nice Aussies who could be riding your boards?
I'm bored . . . so I'm going to have fun. I'm laughing at myself because I'm searching. and lost $200 for non cali stopping at stop sign. 'two lines? ah, ok I messed up.' But hey I got insured by geico. Actually got the nasty points off my record DMV style.
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Surfboard designer
Company: Firewire Location: San Diego , 92007
Status: fulltime / part time / surf now or later Job Category: Sports and Recreation / Fitness
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Job Description:
Firewire surfboards, a division of Nev surfboards is engaged in development of state of the art, custom, surfboard manufacturing. Our team is the most formidable ever assembled, with top industry professionals in the history of surfing. Our traditions come from the Hawaiian royalty and the craft class, from Austrailian and US shapers, and we are building on top of that. We are changing the way surfboards are made, using advanced composite technology and combining it with one of the oldest, most enduring materials known to man: wood, with shaping techniques and methods that are highly scientific, developed after years of research. We produce an environmentally award winning, ASP pro riding, extremely lightweight, durable, custom surfboard, that is best recognizable for its unearthly performance.
The surfboard designer will be responsible for surfer’s stoke. They will be in charge of all aspects of surfboard design, from nose and tail types, fin arrangements, materials processing, and lay up. You will be using a custom, easy to use, user friendly software to design your shape and be guided by the industry’s best.
There will be serious R&D, a surfboard designer must be able to interact and interpret vague descriptions such as ‘dude it’s magic’ or ‘you have a single fin mentality’ or ‘this board needs more rocker’ and work with surf team in furthering surfboard development. The surfboard designer will also be required to test boards themselves.
The surfboard designer must be open to new manufacturing process, as traditional and time honored surfboard shaping techniques may not apply to the new era we are creating. Ever since Clark shut down, and big daddy Clark let us go, we will be leading the charge of innovation and so must our designers.
This position requires applicant to have security clearance, and sign a non disclosure, uber confidentiality agreement. Firewire does a complete background check and drug testing.
Only serious ninjas apply. Your surf kungfu must be strong. Stoke stuffers, snakes, old guard or groms yelling sellouts, industry moguls wanting a hand out, newbies, non surfers, kooks, and pu/pe radicals need not apply.
Position may require travel and you must have a current passport. Some locations may be landlocked (Firewire will reimburse for wave pool admission), as we will be making forays into wave pool resort board manufacturing.
Firewire is conveniently located in the epicenter of surfing, sunny San Diego. You have access to both North County, Orange County, and Baja surfbreaks. We offer competitive salaries, flex time, flex benefits, 401 k, medical, dental, nuclear (sandia), stock options. An Affirmative Action Employer M/F/D/V. EOE
For timely resume processing, please hit apply button or submit your resume to:
Chuy Reyna
760-632-2505-x123
chuy.reyna@firewiresurfboards.com
contact information:
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company: Firewire surfboards www.firewiresurfboards.com
reference code: SD102
click here to see all Firewire opportunities
Sitting in front of your computer debating what Bert should do with his technology, and what his life ideals are is a waste of time. You guys should spend the same amount of time analyzing what to do with your own lives. Geez. Cut the guy some slack. He’s just trying to make a buck. He’s got kids, and business is business. Life doesn’t revolve around what is cool on Swaylocks. If he had never spoke up in the first place, then Sways wouldn’t have the “Compsand” element to it, and everyone wouldn’t even know who Bert was. Then when his stuff hit the market, everyone would have been “Oh neato, look at this stuff!” …then it would have been discussed and reverse engineered. (I love that part btw) Then when we were all done- the “Mass market over-seas” warcry would begin and everyone would start making comparisons to the evil Surtech (brrr… I’m shaking) and alot of you guys would choose to exalt your “soulful” handshaping methods. So, keeping that in mind, remind yourselves that Swaylocks is not Berts target market. And nor is it mine. People come here to learn about board design… not to listen to a bunch of “soul shapers” wimper over what is good and what is evil. Where was your car made? Where did the gas for it come from? You want to talk about good vs. bad… I think you’re on the wrong subject. -Carl
The set up is in San Diego and Burleigh Heads, Australia … both. The demand is in both countries and we are looking to fill that demand from factories in both countries. We also have American designers who are going to be dialing in US conditions both right and left coasts. The designer will also be working together drawing knowlege and inspiration to move surfboards forward. Firewire is a team effort.
Great words Bert.
I live in San Diego and I want one of these boards. I can’t wait for you guys to set up shop.
I will pay for a custom board fit for my size that is stronger, lighter, and has the flex principles you guys claim. If it works I will buy more.
I am not to hot on the name “FireWire”. Can I order one with a small/no logo and custom paint?
Welcome to San Diego,
Josh