When the CEO of Starbucks was asked about his company putting the independent coffee houses out of business he said, we created that market, we started that whole form of business. Before Starbucks there were no coffeehouses. They are all copycats.
You are right, Carl. Before Bert, the most extreme design discussions here were limited to traditional pupe v Loehr eps/epoxy. Bert’s boards are his creation and he can do with them as he damn well pleases. That should be the end of it.
That was awesome Carl.
Every point you made was right on.
Bert, forgetboutit…like Carl said, the kine here are not your target…your “no win” analysis was kind of eye opening…so true…its a good thing you dont have to work with some of the characters here…keep your focus on what you do best and everything else will just fall into place. You too Greg.
Keep chargin!
OH MAN! I got about halfway through this massive thread and started to get a headache.
Why the hell are you guys trying to beat-up Greg and Bert? They’re just surfboard guys trying to find a way to keep the business alive and keep it as close to the domestic surf culture as possible. A bunch of you are trying to crucify them.
Something about the anonymity of bulletin boards makes people brave and hostile. I bet if most of you were having a friendly chat with them face to face, you’d take a whole different attitude, and probably see things differently.
Damn. They’re not the enemy.
bert im sure most of us here wish you a huge sucess.
if ya gonna fly high you gotta expect some trolls to take a shot at you.
i agree your argument has been exactly as you state.
from the beggining.
you said. heres how to make a surftech
learn it and compete.
i remember very clearly
no one can debate that fact.
Sitting in front of your computer debating what Bert should do with his technology, and what his life ideals are is a waste of time. You guys should spend the same amount of time analyzing what to do with your own lives. Geez. Cut the guy some slack. He’s just trying to make a buck. He’s got kids, and business is business. Life doesn’t revolve around what is cool on Swaylocks. If he had never spoke up in the first place, then Sways wouldn’t have the “Compsand” element to it, and everyone wouldn’t even know who Bert was. Then when his stuff hit the market, everyone would have been “Oh neato, look at this stuff!” …then it would have been discussed and reverse engineered. (I love that part btw) Then when we were all done- the “Mass market over-seas” warcry would begin and everyone would start making comparisons to the evil Surtech (brrr… I’m shaking) and alot of you guys would choose to exalt your “soulful” handshaping methods. So, keeping that in mind, remind yourselves that Swaylocks is not Berts target market. And nor is it mine. People come here to learn about board design… not to listen to a bunch of “soul shapers” wimper over what is good and what is evil. Where was your car made? Where did the gas for it come from? You want to talk about good vs. bad… I think you’re on the wrong subject. -Carl
All of your points are well taken.
To some extent though, this information was put out in little snippets, little bits here and there. For the most part more of a whole picture came into view. This discussion forum obviously has become a global community, and its views vary. So, this hopefully will not ruffle too many egos. In the end, in the big picture, this won’t affect most of us. For those who this will affect, good luck with your situation. I thank you for getting to this point, and the opportunity to ask questions.
I am glad we measure success differently than most.
I am thrilled you have domestic production endeavors in the works. I will be buying a board from you guys as soon as I see one. I have only been waiting 2 years now, what’s a few more years of wait.
I totally disagree with with let’s bring the cheaper boards from asia to get um hooked on the custom when they can afford it. Don’t you think S.D. has enough containers arriving at longbeach with imported cheap inexpensive crap now? And you want to bring in more because the poor kids of california need to be able to afford a board to get the stoke?? Don’t worry about that now, mom and dad can certainly afford the tech you promise just to stop the whinning from the kids. With that theory rolex watches need to import the casios for the future rolex wearers right??? I am all for you pushing your new product wherever and whenever you want. It’s a free market place for you live in AUS. Too bad we can’t say the same for the poor bastards who are making your cheap intro get um hooked on epoxy boards equipment.
My question is how will a guy in ventura benefit with your factory in s.d.? It’s a new tool for me? Sounds expensive but I bet you’re willing to sell me whatever it is your selling so I can nut out design issues with my customer, then group hug each other, then have to hear how cheap all the imports are and how my costs are too high in using your tool won’t even let me compete with surftech.
Also what fin system will these high tech boards of yours be sporting or will that also be customer driven?
They are all doing it arguement is bs to me for shipping containers of boards with local labels on them and your arguement of getting the boards to the peeps who can’t afford doesn’t play well with me either.
This has nothing to do with you bringing the factory to the masses. That is just plan old smart business sense in my book. There will always be a custom surfboard market. Now everyone in s.d. has to compete with another factory in the works for custom boards. Well maybe in the next few years anyway.
ps How do we measure success again?
Hey Bert, On the subject of technology - can you get your web guy to turn off directory access on www.firewiresurfboards.com and put up a default homepage - even if it’s just a “coming soon” page. What you’ve got up there at the moment is not a good look.
What good does “growing the triangle” (i.e. bringing more surfers to the beaches) do for surfers? That will only benefit businessmen, at the expense of current surfers everywhere.
If you’re a businessman, then fine. But admit it. Say that you want to grow the triangle because it will bring you more money. Or more fame. Or more respect amongst surf industry types. Or improve your personal surfing life 'cause you’ll be able to take more trips to tavarua or whatever.
I hope these boards we’ve been hearing about for like five years actually are produced someday and that they really are stronger than current boards. Because we’re gonna need it with all the new collisions we’re going to have with all the new barnies coming to the beaches with their cheap asian popouts marketed to them as cool, high-tech “sporting goods.”
On the other hand, maybe we ought to start a movement to make surfboards weaker than ever. Then maybe people wouldn’t pull all the bonehead moves they do in the water. Having to treasure their boards instead of letting them fly around on the end of a leash might be a good thing…
BTW, why do I care? Why do I post these words?
Because we are human beings and expressing our thoughts and sharing with them others is one of the things we do. I don’t expect anyone to agree with me or be influenced by me or take any specific action or anything like that. I just enjoy reading other people’s opinions and figure maybe there are others out there who might enjoy reading mine. It’s human.
Bert,
Still waiting for a reply to my PM, so I’m saying it here:
What I want is a wholesale rate for some custom boards… . . . I want MY designs made in YOUR factory, I have customers wanting my boards but I am reluctant to supply them with boards made my way because they are so expensive to make.
The way I see it, a custom boardbuilding service, if it is REALLY a custom service, should cater for board designers like myself, who need to produce a small number of specialised boards of unique design for their own customers.
For some reason or other that was what I thought you were offering, and I think that it is a good idea.
How about it, can I order a custom ‘Thrusterbuster’ ? I will supply the fins.
Regards
Roy
otay
why is a worker in a thai factory a poor bastard?
your perception of asia is pretty limited
australia is really part of asia these days.
let it go
most of what we use in modern society is manufactured in asian countries
why
cuz americans cant compete in quality or price
sure the labours cheaper but so is the cost of living.
in time the “American Way” so desperately clung to.
will be only sustainable through milatary action.
ill take my chances with asia thanks.
Wow, just got thru this thread and my head is spinning!
All I have to say is this to Bert & Greg:
THANK YOU!!! Thank you both!
Greg- Your epoxy products are the best. Thank you for TEACHING US all how to use them.
Bert- Your information FREELY GIVEN is what got me started vac pressing and looking at new ways of constructing surfboards.
Best of luck to both of you.
I know what I’m gonna be doing… but it looks like Silly’s beating me to the punch (Glad you’re in NZ, though, as your boards look great!).
Tom
monkeyshines is right on–“firewire”? i’ll have mine in a bare wood finish with no logo please. you guys should fire your marketing department, or chuy reyna, or whoever thought up that name! haha, how terrible.
Silly,
I am looking around everywhere and can’t find one item made in N.Z. What is it that you produce as a country and export?
The Thai people are very hard workers. In fact the unemployment rate is lower than the HIV/AIDs rate in adults in Thailand. No welfare program there. Don’t work, don’t eat. And the human,(adult/children) sex trade in Thailand is pretty much held a blind eye to by the Monarchy. Also DVD movie and CD music piracy pretty much over Looked.
For all the valuable natural resources gifted to Thailand, air pollution from vehicle emissions; water pollution from organic and factory wastes; deforestation; soil erosion; wildlife populations threatened by illegal hunting all pretty much sums up what an unregulated producer can do.
But lets not get off subject.
I would like to get the Thai based swaylock crew in on this discussion. Oh, they are working in the factory. Time for me to get back too. I got to compete with the new tech in s.d. that’s coming. Maybe I have time for a nap first.
It has now all been said. Just put down your made in China tools, and your made in Thailand board shorts, and your made in Viet Nam auto parts and get back to building boards. The market will decide if Greg and Bert will be a success with this.
And thanks, Greg and Bert. I wouldn’t be building boards at the level I am at without your generosity. All the best to ya.
amen, some puhlezze start a good design thread…or bikini pictures
New Zealand Exports? How about the film industry, does that count? What about lamb? Just two off the top of my head.
Film industry? That’s just a cheap exploitation of the local workers. And lambs? Don’t get me started. (why do you think they call them lambs?)
The Thai people are very hard workers. In fact the unemployment rate is lower than the HIV/AIDs rate in adults in Thailand. No welfare program there. Don’t work, don’t eat. And the human,(adult/children) sex trade in Thailand is pretty much held a blind eye to by the Monarchy. Also DVD movie and CD music piracy pretty much over Looked.
For all the valuable natural resources gifted to Thailand, air pollution from vehicle emissions; water pollution from organic and factory wastes; deforestation; soil erosion; wildlife populations threatened by illegal hunting all pretty much sums up what an unregulated producer can do.
okay so there a bit behind the times.
western culture is just as guilty of coruption and exploitation of labour and resources in the past
hell america was built on the back of the africans and chinese slave labour
theres not many trees left here in nz either
its just the way the world is .
i totally agree with you about a lot of what you are saying
but i also believe in bert and gregs integrity to not abuse the benefits of cheaper labour
i have full faith in them to run a perfectly ethical company.
as far as nz as a producer well
theres alist longer than an a few arms of australian and new zealand inventions that were sold to US manufacturers
we dont produce very many weapons however.
mainly primary produce
and forestry (american and japanese owned)
nz do a fair bit of ocean raping
although not as much as asian countries.
the main thing that nz exports though
is new zealanders 
i basically make most of my own toys
and find a lot of kiwis have a similar passion for looking after themselves
I would never own a tool made in China. Not because I don’t like Chinese but because it is cheap crap that won’t last. Power tools for surfboard making I would buy Japanese, european or american and not necessarily in that order.
Board shorts I say “go sri lanka or go bare”.
Auto parts…hum I will ask my butler and see where he buys them.
success, as defined by others, is looking back on glory day pics of tube rides and living the surfing lifestyle I think?
Lets get back to the point…
quote from Greg L.
“The primary product built in Asia won’t be the high end product. All the high end custom stuff will be done domestically. But we have to be realistic and see today’s markets for what they are. Retailers and consumers are demanding what is being made overseas. The marketshare that is now held by that segment of the market isn’t getting in by using strong arm tactics. It’s getting in by producing what many surfers and retailers want at a price they’re willing to pay.”
Words mean things. Lets review…The Primary product line…
the question was then… is this selling out? I say yes and I would guess those who have read all the pep talks from Greg in the past would agree if they thought about it logically. He is directly the person who motivated me to buy his epoxy product totally(55 gal drums of resin and hardener, additive F) and step up the eps production. I have low price entry level boards also and now I get to have the supplier of my epoxy as a new board competiter with the cheap imports the retailers and cosumers are demanding??? It is total BS in my book.
I can’t control nor would I even care to try to tell anyone how to run their business. But don’t come crying for understanding about this issue to me. I only can control my business and I will do just that.
But what is most curious to me is with greg’s quote… “The marketshare that is now held by that segment of the market isn’t getting in by using strong arm tactics. It’s getting in by producing what many surfers and retailers want at a price they’re willing to pay.”
So to get their super secret tech and hyped up surfboard technology into the market they have to do it on the back of cheap imports. Bert says it’s a “small” portion of their business plan and for the poor kids who can’t afford a board and greg says otherwise. I would have liked to been a fly on the wall seeing who sold that decision to the business group. Let the tech speak for itself I say. I want to own one real bad but…still none available.
in the mean time move this thread to industry talk, and lets talk about the great aluzine epoxy products of fiberglass hawaii. And like Greg’s “realistic” view of todays market, I think I have a realistic view on what selling out is.
