I looked again. No film industry or lambs in the immediate area.
i have full faith in them to run a perfectly ethical company.
Hi Paul -
At this point, with Nev and the big guns of corporate surfing along for the ride (and probably calling at least some of the shots), do you think Greg and Bert (in spite of their most worthy intentions) really have that much control?
Typically when inventors/craftsmen align with corporate structure, “bit by bit” sacrifices are made as the bean counters figure out ways to squeeze a few more bucks out the process. Often, the inventors/craftsmen don’t see much, if any, of that extra cash. They sometimes are seen as getting in the way of progress and may not even be part of the picture once things get rolling.
"hell america was built on the back of the africans and chinese slave labour "
Just plain not true. Americans built America and I don’t think you would be interested in a history lesson to prove it.
The Thai people are great and the nation as a whole has really been a power house in Asia economically. My beef is not with the wonderful Thai people or anything that is built there legally and sold world wide.
Selling out was the issue remember. Not how you were helped in the past or inspired for the future, but simply selling out.
oh yeah, don’t worry about needing or makin weapons. Our nuclear submarines have your back. America will protect your freedom.(in case the film industry ever attacks)
Bert and Greg
Your generosity with your time and Knowledge over the years has been very much appreciated by the majority of users of this site. There are givers and takers in life. With regards to the swaylocks community your giving has far out paced any perceived taking. With that said, Congratulations, Good Luck, and Thank you.
The Silent Majority
Christian
Greg- Your epoxy products are the best. Thank you for TEACHING US all how to use them.
Bert- Your information FREELY GIVEN is what got me started vac pressing and looking at new ways of constructing surfboards.
I haven’t bought a custom or production board yet. I don’t read surfer magazines. Asian production, good or bad, doesn’t affect me yet, and maybe never will (though I’m sure some could argue it will.)
What really matters to me is what PetroChem said above.
The information Greg and Bert (and many others) share here is something I truly appreciate and if I was looking for a professionally made, custom board, I’d probably look to them just because of my good experiences with them so far.
However, I still enjoy what I think Swaylock’s is about, making your own, sharing what you learned, helping others.
i was chatting to a resin manufacturer over here
and told him he could market his resin to board builders
an it was like yeah who cares
one yacht uses more resin then all of new zealands board builders
in the scale of things otay
u shouldnt worry
anyone that can compete with surftech and have solid domestic prodution
has my vote
still have you guys thought of setting up in NZ
labour is certainly cheap and so are materials due to the boat building industry
Quote:
When the CEO of Starbucks was asked about his company putting the independent coffee houses out of business he said, we created that market, we started that whole form of business. Before Starbucks there were no coffeehouses. They are all copycats.
I’m not sure what the Starbucks quote is intended to illustrate, but as quoted it’s just not true. The first Starbucks opened in Seattle in 1971. There have been coffeehouses here in the East since at least the Jack Kerouac - Bohemian - beatnik era immediately following WWII, some of which featured exotic coffee (such as it was at the time). Great, fresh coffee has been the featured item (although not the name) of Dunkin Donuts since it was founded in (Quincy, MA) 1950 and franchised in '55. Around here, Starbucks has become a poor imitation of others, offering pastries, breakfast sandwiches, and, oh, lousy coffee, all grossly overpriced. I’m guessing that you were trying to say that Starbucks reinvented the coffeehouse the way that Firewire intends to reinvent surfboard manufacturing, but I think you might want to pick a different example…
By the way, I’m the closet anarcho-capitalist here, so I’m not going to pass judgement on the ethics of your business model. I wish you and Bert great success with Firewire. Like many others though, I will be watching to see how well the performance matches the rhetoric, as I place a great deal of emphasis on integrity, and that is a fair way to measure it.
-Samiam
okay my american history is pretty vague
but i do know that slavery and cheap labour was a huge part of the equation.
last time i looked US nuclear powered ships are not allowed to port here
due to the peoples of nz disagreement of nuclear energy.
there is also a moaratorium on ge foods
so what exactly is the us protecting nz from?
asia?
ww11 was 60 years ago
ha.
if we had oil we would need someone to protect nz from the US
one thing i do understand and have researched is the developement and use of the bomb
and nuclear prolification.
but anyway
“selling out”
making money from what you create is selling out?
its just a surfboard
not an invention that will save the world
if i invented a petrolless engine
and sold it to an oil company
that would be selling out
or a great artist doing infomercials
that would be selling out
setting up a business and selling for a profit
thats just running a business
in which case under your logic
you are in fact
“selling out”
Quote:
Greg- Your epoxy products are the best. Thank you for TEACHING US all how to use them.
Bert- Your information FREELY GIVEN is what got me started vac pressing and looking at new ways of constructing surfboards.
I’ll third that!
If (big IF!) I ever buy another custom board, I sure hope it will be from bert and his crew. But for all Bert and Greg have contributed to this community in general and myself in particular, I wish them all the success in the world. Wouldn’t dream of begrudging a bit of material success for all the aloha they have shown all this time… Especially since they have asked for virtually nothing in return, except maybe a little stoke.
It was a joke referring to protecting N.Z. It certainly isn’t funny when you have to explain it though. BTW, nuclear subs don’t need to port in N.Z., they can be silent just off your costline for months. You know, just in case the film industry revolts or you discover oil.
The history of America and it’s development was because of all immigrants hard work. That’s the big part of the equation. Did you know Thailand has a 12% Chinese immigrants. Was Thailand built on the back of the Chinese??? Most people of the world dream to come to America to live in freedom. Crap some people even want to build surfboad factories in the state you need a permit to smoke a cigarette in.
You still are a mile away from my point. I suggest people compromise and sell out on a daily basis as sited by your name tag examples.
But when I compromise/sell out and then try to argue that I am not compromising/selling out…well that’s when I get to speak up. I would have never posted on this thread if the obvious wasn’t tried to be defended.
Another example. Bert’s take on FCS fin box system from a past post. FCS is a perfectly fin system and has been proven successful world wide. I use them in my boards and am very concerned about strength, quality and performance but Bert said…
“if i wasnt woried about quality ,strength and performance and i wanted something i could slap out quickly for the sake of profit ,then id use fcs…”
I am not sure but his boards at the surf expo’s might have had FCS in them.
so I have to ask myself what’s the deal? If they are not using FCS, then he has stuck to his guns regarding quality, strength and performance. If not…well you see my point right?
I am totally bored with this topic and won’t be posting on it anymore.
I have said all there is to say of my own personal opinion. I do seriously look forward to the day I can ride one of these new tech boards. The longer I wait though the excitment of anticipation seems to be wearing off.
That point was made by the CEO of Starbucks who said in a tv program about Starbucks aired on worldwide tv last weekend. He used Italian coffeehouses as his roll models. Why? Because there were no US coffee houses. If you don’t like it, take it up with him. He’s the one who said it. I’m sure he’ll take your call. Just do not bother me about it again.
And don’t blemish Kerouac with your nonsense. He drank in bars.
But Fuckin Gonuts?!? That is not coffee. Only a complete tasteless fool would compare that canal swill to coffee.
Anarcho-capitalist? Ted Unabomber Kaczynski is an anarcho-capitalist. I see you pick great roll models. Don’t talk to me about your ethics. Anarchists have no ethics. To have ethics one must first believe in rules. Anarchists disavow all rules. That makes mailbombs real easy on the conscience.
Point is you can’t show me a commercially available board comprable to Bert’s. There aren’t any. Only hobbyists. Nor is there a resin like Greg’s. Not even a second rate imitation.
The SUV created a new market. YOU can not argue with that.
It’s a fact. Maybe one you can understand. Don’t start in on me about Jeep because I have been a Jeep owner for 30 years. I know something about them too.
Quote:
Anarcho-capitalist? Ted Unabomber Kaczynski is an anarcho-capitalist. I see you pick great roll models. Don’t talk to me about your ethics. Anarchists have no ethics. To have ethics one must first believe in rules. Anarchists disavow all rules. That makes mailbombs real easy on the conscience.
The Unabomber was a sociopath, so you can’t soil all anarchists by using him as an example. Anarchists do not disavow all rules. They only disavow rules made and enforced by those who have more power than others. They prefer rules made by consensus. That sounds good to me.
Quote:
Point is you can’t show me a commercially available board comprable to Bert’s.
Heck, I can’t even show you one of Bert’s. As far as 99.99% of the world is concerned, they don’t even exist. For whatever reason, we’ve been hearing about these boards for, what, five years? And though I’ve proably seen tens of thousands of surfboards in people’s hands and in the water in that time, I’ve yet to see one that uses Bert’s technology (or even the watered-down version he showed us here). I’ve seen pictures in a surf magazine but even they were prevented from actually surfing the boards because they “weren’t ready”. Nice high-tech paperweights guys.
Call me when the investment money and hype turns into something I can actually experience.
I knew you’d be next. Way too predictable.
You are anonther one who should really try at least to get your facts straight before you start popping off.
The Unabomber was mistakenly called a terrorist, when in fact his Manifesto clearly identified him as anarchist.
Anarchism as a political philosophy , is the belief that all forms of social coercion , such as governments and social hierarchies are undesireable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
Which part of ALL don’t you understand or accept?
They don’t prefer concensus. You are making that up.
Try voluntary associations. Like here. But the consequences of which may be unpleasant. Like me telling you you are making things up. There are rules here too. Don’t feed the trolls like I am doing now. Or do your research first. Like me.
As far as Bert’s boards go, can you see oxygen?
Of course you can’t. But according to your statements and beliefs the only things that exist are things you can see.
Are we in second grade here? Come on!
You are breathing my air! Stop breathing my air. See, anarchy can not last. It must be replaced with a set of rules otherwise eveything breaks down into total… anarchy.
"I can’t even show you one of Bert’s. As far as 99.99% of the world is concerned, they don’t even exist. For whatever reason, we’ve been hearing about these boards for, what, five years? And though I’ve proably seen tens of thousands of surfboards in people’s hands and in the water in that time, I’ve yet to see one that uses Bert’s technology (or even the watered-down version he showed us here). I’ve seen pictures in a surf magazine but even they were prevented from actually surfing the boards because they “weren’t ready”. Nice high-tech paperweights guys. "
im gonna have to back that up… i have approx 100 boards/repairs/new/trades etc a week go thru my shop 10 minutes down the road from firewire headquarters, as well as the crowded surf here and i havent seen one of berts for 11 years ago one of our (bert/me) mutual friends moved over from there(wa) and had one balsa sando.
however im probably not noticeing the white rohacell boards ridden by test pilots in the water from the carpark on the crowded points as i check the surf on my way to the quiet tweed beachies
the future tech certainly has lots of you guys rattled… im not sure if its the fear of losing the 1% market share they may attain or the frustrated desire to be able to make something better thats eating you guys up. just get out there in your sheds and start playing with stuff go surf it and keep progressing.
a protester says “free tibet” or “stop board building in bohemia” He is appealing to a higher authority to do something.
An anarchist trys to show the world a better way to do something. He takes action. Sure some anarchists are overly violent, but others are just building surfboards their way, trying to make a legitimate contribution to society.
I for one totally enjoy reading about backyard board building. I also totally enjoy reading about how to build surfboard factories. I’m glad its all on Swaylocks and I hope the factory guys continue to share their stories.
Dave,
Look more closely on the Tweed Beachies! hehe
Speedneedle
Quote:
Anarchism as a political philosophy , is the belief that all forms of social coercion , such as governments and social hierarchies are undesireable.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism
Which part of ALL don’t you understand or accept?
They don’t prefer concensus. You are making that up.
This is ridiculous. I said anarchists don’t like rules made/enforced by power: i.e. ALL the “social coercion” you are looking for. You said anarchists don’t like any rules at all. That’s doesn’t fit with the definition even you yourself are now providing. As for concensus, the page you linked to contains the following sentence: “In place of what are regarded as authoritarian political structures and coercive economic institutions, anarchists advocate social relations based upon voluntary association of free individuals in autonomous communities, mutual aid, and self-governance.” A rule everyone agrees to (consensus) is just another word for mutual aid and group self-governance.
BTW, you asked if anyone is making boards comparable to Bert’s. My point was that not even Bert/Nev is making boards comparable to the marketing hype description we are being bombarded with.
BTW, you asked if anyone is making boards comparable to Bert’s. My point was that not even Bert/Nev is making boards comparable to the marketing hype description we are being bombarded with.
Is that any business of yours? Or are you the self appointed surfboard builder police? Bombarded? Are you chaindup and being forced to read this website? Get real. Your hypebole is retarded.
Listen you can have concensus politics in a democracy, a socialist dictatorship and communism. Consensus just means lack of conflict. Ther is a buttload of concensus going on in China today. If you don’t go along you get dead. Have you not listened to the International Rights Subcommittee meetings this last week as the pres of China was in town?
Anarchists do not ever say they would surrender that right to conflict or prefer a lack of conflict. That is your total fabrication. In fact they prefer no one tell them what to do, and if someone does tell them what to do, they retain the right to destroy them. If that is not conflict based politics I don’t know what is.
That wiki def is a little hippy dippy. It was as favorable to your side as I cared to post. And I could still argue it down blindfolded on one foot both hands tied behind my back and a mouth full of jujubees. There are many much more militant definitons all over the place. Shall we go there?
Your point is, you are involving yourself in something that does not involve you. My point is, I’m just scratching an itch.
BTW my specialty is Latin Am politics. Today I discovered the whereabouts of a pair of crystal goblets it is believed were given as payment of some sort to a general in Simon Bolivar’s army.
Quote:
Is that any business of yours? Or are you the self appointed surfboard builder police? Bombarded? Are you chaindup and being forced to read this website? Get real. Your hypebole is retarded.
Oh, I understand. Only those who have drunk the KoolAid and are playing on the home team are allowed to discuss the Bert/Greg/Nev/investors plan of world domination? I just figured if someone is free to hype their project here, and others are free to say, “go team!”, then others might be just as free to throw some questions and complaints back at them now and then. Silly me.
Hi Slim,
Nice to see you getting those neurons firing on Swaylock’s
I have to say that I had the wrong end of the stick as far as this ‘Firewire’ thing goes. . . . I didn’t realise that Bert and Greg are now part of Nev surfboards, and that they have no interest in doing a fair dinkum custom service. Any boardbuilder who offers custom boardbuilding service should be able to build a board to my design. . . . it’s fairly obvious that as a division of Nev surfboards they are not going to do so, I’m kind of embarrassed that I thought they would. . . . a moment of overenthusiasm on my part. . . they won’t reply to my messages. . . possibly Bert thought I was making a poor joke asking them to build boards to my design.
China doesn’t bother me, but ‘Nev’ surfboards always rubbed me up the wrong way, kind of a crass company, just a personal taste thing, but I’m not a supporter.
As far as Bert’s boards being better than all the rest, it really does appear to be mostly hype… . . like what exactly do they do better, and how can they prove it ? Nice flex pattern possibly, but anything else ?
Backyard is pretty ultimate really
