PU foam: the dawn of a new era?

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** This is the chemical that killed thousands of people in an accident in Bhopal, India

** The following are the diisocyanates which have been studied enough to set the 0.005 ppm TLV

-TDI (toluene diisocyanate), CAS # 584-84-9

-MDI (methylene bisphenyl isocyanate), CAS # 101-68-8

-hexamethylene diisocyanate, CAS # 82-06-0

-isophorone diisocyanate, CAS # 4098-71-9

-methylene bis(4-cyclohexylisocyanate),CAS # 5124-30-1


if you look at the above isocyanates , you see that all the related cousins are in one bad ass family …

now i couldnt assertain which exact one was involved in the bhopal accident , all i know was it was one of the cyanates listed above …if it was indeed methyl isocyanate , then that means surfboard foam is even more toxic than the stuff that killed the 5000 people in india …look below in substance threshold limit and see where methyl isocyanate actually sits in relative toxicity to the other isocyanates …

also the above table lists 5 isocyanates that fit in the same catorgory of toxicity , both MDI and the more popular TDI (chosen for its crisp whiteness ) are both used in blank production and according to the TLV chart , are 200 times more toxic than phosgene WAR GAS …

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Substance Threshold Limit Values in parts per million

ethyl alcohol 1000.

rubbing alcohol 400.

mineral spirits 100.

toluene 50.

carbon tetrachloride 5.

phosgene (war gas) 0.1

methyl isocyanatel 0.02

diisocyanates** 0.005


the bottom line is , at some stage in the future all developed countries will question the use of these chemicals in everyday products …

a substance that is toxic obviously needs to be handled with care and the more toxic it is and the less of it you need to be exposed to before some harm can be done , means its use will be more strictly controlled , its the level of control advised by the authorities and all its costs and consequences that needs to weighed up against the profits made from its use …

these chemicals can be handled safely , but if an accident should occur because of someone making a mistake (eg bhopal in india) then there are dire consequences …

i challenge anyone to ring up a company who sells TDI and see if you can buy it over the counter ???

if someone without proper training or without the proper equipment handled it , they could easily kill them selves …

there was a case in eastern australia 15 years back where 2 workers were mixing and pouring MDI in a confined space (a shipping container for repairs) and they died in there …

the other issue which havent been discussed is the blowing agents , because CFC’s Chloro-flouro-carbons (ozone destroying molecules ) have been banned in western nations , this means other substitutes have taken there place , now its mainly C O2 ( carbon dioxide ) this being a smaller less stable molecule has lead to foams not handling extremes as good as they did 20 years ago (this is another whole story )…

but in china CFC’s are not outlawed , so on one hand the chinese foam will be better quality , it will also still be pumping out ozone depleting gases , plus without strict laws governing its safe use , workers mis handling it ,could easily end up being killed by it …

so will the american surfboard industry find another nipple resembling that of clarks , or actually grow past infancy and develop into the industry leader it sells itself as ???

there are some surfboard factories in the U.S. that right now are carrying on business as usual …

as much as this comment is distasteful to me as well , appart from a few scattered individuals around the world , thailand as a whole is leading the world in surfboard construction technology …

how embarrising is that ???

the U.S. surfboard industry spent a generation trying to kill off every alternative it felt was a threat to the soul of surfing , belittled and derided all those who tried to improve things and yet now all those same people whom i had seen vilified for my whole existence in this industry are now being held up as the only hope and are getting highlighted because there the only ones still in business …

any industry not prepared to meet codes of safe practice and not prepared to move forward with new technologies as they come on line , face extinction …

the last comment made , p/u p/e has continued to this day because its easier to work with , yep so easy that a guy in his backyard could build a board , ive said this exact comment before , that pretty much highlights the state of technology in any industry , if a backyarder can threaten an industry , it shows the industry to be no more technologically advanced than a backyard operation …

im actually surprised at gregs response , real surprised …

the first time i met greg in person , he was checking sways and his PM on a public computer at an airport , i got a quick look over his shoulder at gregs hate mail list , boneheaded comments about how epoxy sucks , and threatening letters about pushing his wares to people who dont want it …

now those very same people are ringing up asking for help , and greg is actually doing just that ???

if i took shit for 20 years from idiots resisting an alternative that ultimatly would keep them in business , i would be doing drive bys and making sure i was standing out the front when they were nailing the sign up that said OUT OF BUSINESS .

so will it really be the dawn of a new era ??? or are we going to see more of the same ???

many of the posts in this thread indicate that no one really wants to change and to the last dying breath will be saying p/u p/e is the only way …

im so glad this has hit the mainstream media , because now the average joe can see the mentalities that have been running this industry and i think the industry should be questioned …

we make a huge fuss about companies that pollute and cause harm , and say oh yea , they should pay the penalty , but whats the difference between one big enviromentally insensitive company and a whole industry of enviromentally insenstive businesses …

even if the U.S. industry finds another supplier of p/u , a surfboard now has a whole new image attached to it …

the mainstream media is now demonising the surfboard industry that has refused to step up and be responsible …

interesting times ahead …

regards

BERT

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Bert,

I agree with you that as a class of chemicals isocyanates are nasty fellows and I have stated that before. The subtleties of toxicity and exposure data are sometimes missed. TLV (see below) does not rank chemicals by toxicity alone, but by “safe” levels of exposure. The actual measure of toxicity is LC50. This is the dose required to kill 50% of the test subjects (generally rats).

You can check the links below but in summary LC50 goes MIS (Bhopal accident) 14 ppm, TDI 28 ppm and MDI 72 ppm. These are values in air as inhalation is the predominant route of potentially toxic exposure. This brings up the next issue: Vapor pressure which is a chemical property that tells how likely a substance is to become a gas at a given temperature (ie how fast a liquid will evaporate). The higher the vapor pressure the more likely it will become a gas (and be easier to inhale). For reference, the vapor pressure of water (@ 20*C) is 2.4, acetone 30 and styrene 0.5 mm Hg. MIS (Bhopal) has an extremely high vapor pressure (348 mm Hg) and thus the spill became rapidly airborn and affected a large area. A spill of TDI (0.05 mm Hg) or MDI (0.000005 mm Hg) are much less likely to create a toxic gas cloud (still not good for workers in the area of a spill).

I again tell you that I am not saying this to hype pu production, but since you and Greg are some of the more visible people in the eps/epoxy world, I think you that if you want to make part of your case on environmental grounds you should have the most accurate info possible.

As far as China, still being able to use CFCs as blowing agents that I don’t know. In the US, HCFCs and pentane are still used in polyurethane insulation production.

By the way, you can get isocyanates over the counter (just not in a raw form)…check the ingredients in of a bottle of Gorrilla Glue or this http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Pour_Foam/pour_foam.html.

Rob

threshold limit value TLV

“Concentration in air of a substance to which it is believed that most workers can be exposed daily without adverse effect (the threshold between safe and dangerous concentrations). These values are established (and revised annually) by the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists and are time-weighted concentrations for a 7 or 8-hour workday and a 40-hour workweek. For most substances the value may be exceeded, to a certain extent, provided there are compensatory periods of exposure below the value during the workday (or in some cases the week). For a few substances (mainly those that produce a rapid response) the limit is given as a ceiling concentration (maximum permissible concentration - designated by “C”) that should never be exceeded.” [Glossary for Chemists of Terms Used in Toxicology," http://sis.nlm.nih.gov/Glossary/t.html]

LC50

Lethal concentration in 50% of animals tested.

vapor pressure (VP)

A measure of a chemical’s volatility at standard room temperature (68 degrees Fahrenheit). Multiply vapor pressure by 1300 to estimate in ppm the saturated concentration of the chemical after a spill in a confined space. [Sullivan, p. 1086-7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_Disaster

http://hazmap.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/hazmap_generic?tbl=TblAgents&id=436

http://hazmap.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/hazmap_generic?tbl=TblAgents&id=414

http://hazmap.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/hazmap_generic?tbl=TblAgents&id=118

http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/hlthef/methylis.html

http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/hlthef/toluene2.html

http://www.unmfs.org/policydoc/Policy46p726.htm#T1

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but if a circus performer is doing stuff on equipment that not another person in the world is doing except for others riding similar stuff , then its obvious those materials have better performance characteristics for doing circus stunts …

regards

BERT

Not everyone wants to be a circus performer and if you really want to perform, you don’t ride a longboard.

I like modern surfboards. I like the speed, looseness and control of modern longboards and shorter boards, but folks ride what they want and most ride what the magaizines tell them to ride. Epoxy boards have their own drawbacks. I have ridden both of them. I don’t care of overly lightweight boards on shorter boards, but like it some longboards. Epoxy rides different, it’s just something you get used to if your into it, but I don’t think it always better, just different.

In my opinion, shapers relying on any foam maker other than themselves are asking for another shake up at some point in the future. Your lively hood is in the hands of someone other than your customers. With some learning you can be in control of your own destiny if you have a following. The only way I have seen that being possible is with epoxy boards. Epoxy may never take over as the main surfboard or it may take over completely, but if your a board builder and plan on staying in the business and depending on overseas foam and other foam makers to keep you afloat in the years to come, you deserve what happens to you for not being prepared. Thats not harsh, thats reality.

The decision has been made for you regards of the drawbacks you may feel epoxy has. I personally would rather ride my old boards forever than buy chinese or thailand made garbage. If I could do it with my clothing and everything else, I would do that as well. I can with my surfboards. At least with some of the epoxy, you can get a handshaped board thats not too dependent on imports.

I am wondering how Merrick is going to keep his prices high if the public finds out his cost in Thailand is lower. I hope the whole thing backfires on the big three if they go that route and the end of the street shapers make a comeback.

native customs , that was impressive , its good to have someone in with a solid background in chemicals …

i agree , its easy to run off with half baked statements and overlook the whole picture …

the type of information you post gives a perspective …

i also believe in many cases even the authorities dont know enough about a particular substance , so will lump a range of chemicals together as all being bad , when some are obviously worse than others , but only those using the chemicals on a daily basis actually understand the difference …

solo , you say if you really want to perform dont ride a longboard ???

and your references to epoxy are exactly what im trying to highlight …

everyone bases there feelings towards epoxy on there experience with boards they have ridden made from it …

the very first time i saw surftechs and there shapes and structure , my first thought was " oh no these things are going to give epoxy boards a bad name "…

i think your falling into the same trap as everyone else , your assuming that all epoxy/eps boards are the same …

of coarse if you wanted performance you wouldnt ride a p/u longboard …

and you wouldnt ride an epoxy/eps longboard based on a p/u design …

dont blame the resin and foam because the shaper was clueless …

one ride on a well designed epoxy/eps and you will never go back …

your comments are like saying , yea i rode a board made from p/u p/e and it didnt go well therefore all boards made this way are bad …

whats the difference between a ferrari and a lada or some other cheap car ???

because of the mass market attraction , more boards than ever before in history are just plain garbage , with fewer and fewer true custom surfboard makers left …

so the chances of riding a magic epoxy board arent that great…

the only way to get magic performance from epoxy/eps is to customise with it and gain an understanding of how and why it works so well in some designs …

hey guess what , i once placed second in a shortboard state round riding a longboard …

much to the disgust of the other competitors and judges , i filled the performance criterea of the judges , that particular year i qualified for the nationals …

there is no way in the world i could have achieved that on a conventional p/u longboard …

so to me its obvious your not aware of what truly is possible with alternate materials …

how embarrised would you be if you were one of the competitors placed behind second ??if a guy on a longboard can beat shortboarders using the shortboard judging criterea of , the most radical manouver in the most critical part of the wave , placing the board above the lip line , speed , power and control whilst performing functional connecting manouvers etc …

sorry solo , but this time im disagreeing with your last sentiments because i know you havent seen all the possibilities …

regards

BERT

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the last comment made , p/u p/e has continued to this day because its easier to work with , yep so easy that a guy in his backyard could build a board , ive said this exact comment before , that pretty much highlights the state of technology in any industry , if a backyarder can threaten an industry , it shows the industry to be no more technologically advanced than a backyard operation

Bert, most surfers view surfboards as closer to art than “industry”. They aren’t interested in bringing technology into surfing. Just as any backyarder having the tools and ‘technological’ knowledge to paint the Mona Lisa doesn’t show there is anything wrong with Art, the fact that backyarders can shape surfboards that they and others enjoy doesn’t say anything negative about surfing.

I’m interested in having cleaner surfboards. But my approach to this certainly wouldn’t be through “technology” or “progress”. I would be more likely to look to the past: and make boards out of wood!

The point I was trying to make above was that environment is a real issue. We have just seen the result of that. Polyester resins are also being hard hit in CA and other states. This is fact. Every polyester boat builder is gone from CA. There are laws on the books, right now, that make every polyester glass shop in SoCal illegel. Clarks letter outlined some of these issues and there not going away.

Actually Bert, I was giving kudos to epoxy. The epoxy I have ridden is from Steve Forstall who is on the cutting edge of the epoxy. I have a 10’ longboard he shaped for me that rides like an 8’6’'. I personally hate heavy old longboards for anything but wall hangers. I have had no less than 8 surfboards from epoxy, the good stuff, not the surftech stuff. I like my short boards on the slightly heavier side.

I know what you mean about performance longboards. There have been times I felt I was moving much faster than on a shorty, but seriously, your ability and not the longboard is probably what got you first in the contest. No 9 footer is going to be as loose as a 6’2’'. Sorry just not gonna convince me otherwise on that one.

I personally think Epoxy is the future for the reasons I mentioned, but that does not mean it does not still have some drawbacks that I personally don’t care for at times and there is nothing wrong with someone prefering poly. I do agree that with some of the new stuff out, some of the issues I have had with it will be corrected. I am putting in an epoxy order for a Stall four fin next week.

As I said, I like moving ahead when it’s truly an improvment. As you mentioned, the popouts were no improvment, just different. I see alot of promise in the handshaped variety.

I personally think we are living in exiting times in the surfboard industry. I like the change and I hope it shakes things up real good, so the industry no longer resembles what it was. A bunch of bad used car salesmen pushing the latest bag of tricks for the kiddies.

hey slim , i agree with your thoughts …

i was using backyarders as a reference point for the industry …

both backyard hobby surfboard builders and the surfboard industry exist side by side …

in many cases my thoughts are addressed to an unresponsive industry …

there are so many reasons that local surfboard production numbers are in decline , over the years ive seen good tech go overseas because the mindset among board builders was , why ? we like things the way they are …

so many industries have moved forward , but the surfboard industry doesnt look much different to a giant backyard operation …

the mindset to keep the status quo , has been the single biggest reason for the decline of the industry …

that over riding attitude can be highlighted in every facet of why the domestic surfboard industry is failing …

for a guy in his backyard exploring design and having fun being creative , has nothing to do with what the industry as a whole does …

right now with the collapse of clark , backyarders are ready to change in a blink , all they want to do is have fun being creative and exploring design …

but the industry needs to be on the cutting edge of design and technology if its to be competitive , the whole p/u p/e scenario for the surfboard industry is miles from cutting edge …

if an industry isnt willing to make progress and improve product quality and performance , than those who do ,survive and those who dont , dont …

many have made steps to improve tech , a shaping machine is one way to be more competitive , this at least shows a willingness to improve , but if concerted effort isnt put in to constantly evolve and make improvements , then in the future we will have asian boards ,backyarders and those willing to improve on the status quo and keep raising the bar with technology , you just wont see a guy handshaping and glassing the old fashion way unless hes doing it boutique style and charging for it , but a whole production surfboard business set up around traditional p/u p/e techniques just wont survive …

so there is a difference there to what the artist and creative person does in there backyard …

see its cool now , we have the industry talk room getting used more since clark day …

so when i go next door i put my backyarder hat on and hang with the creative types …

hey solo , i got all that …

yep i agree , am looking forward to see how it all unfolds …

you still in the surfshop business ???

if so it may be time to start talking rack space …

regards

BERT

Bert,

It just so happens that current events have given me the inspiration to open another surfboard showroom. I have never really left the business, I just moved it online to sell what I liked and believed in; instead of having to sell Quik and junk like that to keep the doors open. I have always tried to deal with only the best in the business when it comes to surfboards, not whose the most popular at a given time.

I will miss the beauty of the older designs, but the days of poly ruling the industry when it comes to customs is quickly becoming a distant memory. People go out of business within the surf industry every week. Should one of the suppliers of foam go, it will be Clark all over again. With Epoxy your in control of your own destiny and for now there is an endless supply of styro. I am not kidding when I say that I am exited. I like progress and change. I have been vocal about china shapes and popouts because they have been change but not progress.

I’ve been looking for the right thread to bring this up - I did several write-ups for the Cerritos eps thread but I didn’t like the way that I came off so I never posted it. Theres a lot of talk about eps/epoxy effect to the industry, but all I can see is it driving more business to china. While others left Cerritos filled with hope all I could feel was depression. The tech of cutting from a large block of foam, rolling over the edges just screams of export business (cheap materials done by cheap labor). The problem is that its too shape dependent making it extremely easy to steal. This is no way to make a living.

For the local shaper and shops to survive I think they need to return to being a service industry. As a middle aged guy going into a surf shop to buy a board I am unable to talk to somebody who actually understands my needs and is able to help me make a selection that improved my surfing. Nobody can explain why one board is significantly better for me than another - let alone why I would ever need a quiver of boards. So, why not buy a chinese import?

Once I came to swaylocks things changed for me. For instance, I went to Bashems to find a fin for my 11’3". The guy knew what fin would work for my board and where I surfed. He explained it clearly. Told me why the fin that I wanted was wrong. The end result was that I got a fin that worked real well with my board. This experience has happened to me over and over as a result of the people that I come in contact with at swaylocks. Unforunately, this information isn’t available when you go into a shop.

When Bert did the original vacbag thread he mentioned that it was a way to compete against imports. At the time I didn’t realize why this would make a difference. Its because of the huge amount of variables that the shaper can influence. Bert often uses the analogy of a car. This works well because most of us understand the basics of a car. Who would buy a porshe to go offroading or a ferarri for its smooth cruising ride? The general public gets the idea that different suspensions work better in different conditions (its because they’ve been educated by commercials). This is where the idea the EPS/EPOXY boards saving the world falls apart. There’s just not enough variables that you can influence to make the boards significantly different that a consumer understands. Imagine if the only thing you could change was the porshe’s shape so what would you do. You would stick a hummers body on top and tell me its going to be great for off roading. I’m not going to buy it. This is why composites are the only way to go. It gives you lots of variables you can change - more than can be knocked off in some chinese factory. By having control of many variables - and somebody who understands what they do - then local shop now has a chance to sell me the following SanO boards - choppy summer lounge in the sun board. high tide shore break board, clean everyday board, large outside break board, etc… Yes they could market the eps/epoxy board this way, but it would just be a porshe with a hummers body.

Hey Solo - I’m not disagreeing with you here, but lemme just point something out about performance.

Is a tango less of a dance than hip-hop?

Is a Wagner opera easier to perform than speedmetal?

Is a 100 meter dash a better performance than a marathon?

There are those of us - certainly a minority on Swaylocks - who consider a performance board to be something that allows us to move with grace & charm. I have very little interest in ripping a wave & throwing buckets. I’m not criticizing those who do - I’m just saying

Ironically, I’ve found certain combinations of EPS, epoxy, and other stuff allow me that type of performance out of my equipment that many others attribute to heavyweight poly & poly.

I don’t think moving slowly has anything to do with it. A good athletic performance could certainly include footwork, agility, lightness…you could argue that, in these criteria, Joel Tudor delivers a better performance than either Kelly or Laird. Skip Frye’s idea of performance is way different from Tyler’s, but I doubt either one of 'em would want a ‘modern thruster’, or a ‘modern longboard’, for that matter…

Please, try not to generalize. I practice - and admire - a totally different set of skills which embody a good performance. Cheers :slight_smile:

Actually Benny, I am with ya on that type of thing. When I say heavy slow longboards, I am speaking of the hordes of kuks driven by the retro fad in the line up that can’t surf, have no etiquette, get in the way and use the excuse the best surfer is the one having the most fun. Nothing wrong with the last attitude if it were not for them getting in the way with their heavy slow longboards and generally being a menace. I own a couple of heavy longboards, all my nuggets are on the heavier side, and I like the lighter boards at times as well. I love it all and no one has fought for old style glassing as much as I have.

However, this current wave of wanna be hippies needs to pay some dues and learn proper manners and older longboards are simply slower than moder longboards of the exact same design. I am not speaking of high performance longboard vs. traditional. I am speaking modern traditional vs old traditional.

Great hearing from you Benny, hope all is well.

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Ironically, I’ve found certain combinations of EPS, epoxy, and other stuff allow me that type of performance out of my equipment that many others attribute to heavyweight poly & poly.

This is one reason why I keep so up to date with what you are doing. The boards that you surf are definantly one that I would want in my quiver. Technology shouldn’t limit your options, but rather increase them.

I’m right there with you, Peter.

Notice my recent balsa log (photos in another thread) has no leash loop… :slight_smile:

The sharpest words I ever have for other surfers are reserved for those who can’t control their equipment - and the big, heavy logs are the worst.

A nugget is a shape that I’d like to try someday, too… although definitely not a serftech one :slight_smile:

Dan, you should just make one. You’re already there in your mind. Just make the thing, skip the leash, and tell yourself “keep moving”. Never stand still - step up, step back, switch foot, turn, trim - there’s always something to do :slight_smile:

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Harderners matter little to me. I’ve been using UV for layups and hotcoats for a number years. I also do a large # of epoxy repairs on soft-tops and Surftechs since 2001. Have lammed boards with it etc. UV doesn’t even smell, let alone emitt the fumes of catalyized resin. All I keep hearing from you guys is how we should cut our own blanks from blocks of EPS. Talk about toxic! The ONLY way you EPS guys are ever gonna take over the market is if PU and PE DOES die. That hasn’t happened yet! You should have got off your board long enough to take Econ. 101. You would then realize that where there is Demand there is Supply. McDing

DITTO===============I would have to say that even with the sandwich/epoxy experience that Loer and Berger have the reality is that PU/PE continues to reign with no guilt attached. i really shouldn’t say it but Benny you really are full of IT. McDing

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  1. Champions of eras. Sometimes these are self appointed people who devote themselves an extra 10% on top of 100% to an era or the era has selected them to champion that era. If you are affiliated with that era it is good to aid or help champions of your era. Champions of non affiliated eras are given the duty to claim you for that era. Beware of this and use the steps outlined in multiple eras in dealing with these. Sometimes champions will defeat attempts. Do not entertain the champion’s notions of the advantages of their era or allude that you are interested because you are a nice gal or guy. Be upfront and honest and tell them you do not select their era. State the reasons so future eras will rock with new suggestions. Then ignore the champion of that era. Champions are to usher their era as the new era, but the power is in your hands. You choose the era.

  2. Eras and time travel. A misconception of eras is that if you proceed through previous eras, it will turn back time. This is untrue. Eras and time are related but not interelated. Therefore if you lay with a particular era it will not mean that you will be intercoursing with particular time when that era was first introduced to the world. In a summary, Era shifting does not equate to Time travel. Be wary, as there are at least one million and one scams related to the belief of era and time travel.

  3. care and upkeep of eras. People always ask me this. You must be open mind and follow the steps above. A common adage is: A well taken care of era will take care of itself. Remember that infusion of too many new ideas and changes may cause an era to expire and change into a new era. In this case remember to follow proper disposal steps of old eras and adoption of new eras. Change is good and eras like change. But too much change or radical change will force in a new era. Eras do not require refooding or refueling, or do not drink beverages, rather they feed off the experience of you. Although they may appeciate a gift of Cristal, eras often must be experienced, and are feeling most happy when someone is experiencing them. Remember: Experiencing an era is the best way to keep an era.

  4. In closing, remember to experience the era. Properly dispose of or let go of eras. Don’t let champions of eras get you down, you have the choice, you have the power to choose your era. ERA’s do not equal TIME Travel. Only deal with certified era outlets such as Epoch or New Game New Era.

As the old adage says " Try it, you’ll like it!!" EPS may not take over PU but the more people that try EPS epoxy boards that are hand shaped and glassed, the more people will see the difference. Why do you think Rusty has switched solely to EPS?

Jeff

flipping through the latest issue of my trade magazine for bathroom reading, I came across this article that seem to just scream about what seems to be happening regarding the whole PUPE/Epoxy wars going.

Kind of boring to most but if you swap out the terms regarding Software Development with EPS and Epoxy you’ll find a strikingly parallel argument of what Greg and Bert are faced with in pitching their case. Maybe some of this might be of help to those involved in companies that are in these battles to strategize a plan for success. Gonna be alot of failures out there as everyone goes after the same dollar.

Sorry

it’s along read…

(Reprint without permission of author ala productmarketing.com)

Quote:

Fresh Or From The Can?

Why The Better Product Still Struggles In The Marketplace

By Kevin Mireles

Imagine developing a product that encapsulated the best practices from the best minds in the business. A product that could increase your customer’s revenue by anywhere from $50,000 to $250,000 annually for only a few hundred dollars a month?

And best of all, it only took a couple of additional steps to use and could save time in the long run.

Given that type of ROI and rave reviews from early adopters, I figured marketing and selling the product would be a “no brainer.” So envisioning myself semi-retired and swirling Mai Tais on the Mexican Riviera, I signed on the dotted line, taking equity and deferred compensation in lieu of salary.

Two years later, my bank account is now a blank account—but while certainly not wealthier, I’m much wiser. So what happened? Why didn’t a “proven” product with a great ROI spread like wildfire—and instead just smoldered? There are many reasons, but the biggest reason was that the product required extra work to receive the extra benefits—and most people won’t do extra work no matter how big the potential future benefit is.

In this article, I’ll explain how you can incorporate that fundamental tenet of human nature into your product planning and marketing to increase adoption and sales.

The problem: The road to hell is paved with good intentions

We all agree exercise is good. In fact, it’s critical to our health, yet the majorityof us don’t exercise enough or at all. Why? Because for most of us, it requires taking additional time and effort.

However, given the right support structures, e.g. a personal trainer, childcare to watch the kids, etc., the probabilities of adopting and maintaining an exercise ritual will increase dramatically. And soon, what was considered the “extreme” becomes the norm.

So what does this have to do with software?

Simple, no matter how good a new product is, if it requires the user to change their routine, it may meet resistance. And if you expect the user to take extra steps to get the extra benefit, then you must expect a large percentage of users will be unwilling to do the extra work, no matter how big the end gain. And even if they want to change, many won’t unless you provide additional, and often seemingly irrelevant, services. So it’s critical to incorporate this knowledge into the business plan, product design, marketing and implementation process in order to increase your probabilities of success.

Technology adoption

Technology moves blindingly fast. Adoption is another story altogether.

Every product manager is familiar with the product adoption lifecycle and “crossing the chasm.” While the steps are the same regardless of the product, what varies dramatically is the timeframe. And since time is money, the most important thing to figure out is how to shorten the adoption lifecycle.

The Technology Acceptance Model (TAM) is a great first step to understand why people adopt (or not) new software. Wikipedia® states:

“The Technology Acceptance Model (TAM) is an information systems theory that models how users come to accept and use a technology. The model suggests that when users are presented with a new software package, a number of factors influence their decision about how and when they will use it, notably:

Perceived usefulness (PU) This was defined by Fred Davis as ‘the degree to which a person believes that using a particular system would enhance his or her job performance.’

Perceived ease-of-use (EOU) Davis defined this as ‘the degree to which a person believes that using a particular system would be free from effort’ [Davis, 1989, MIS Quarterly, 13(3)].”

In other words, what’s the benefit and how easy is it to use? Traditionally, ease-of-use has always played second fiddle to more features, but per the TAM, ease of use is just as critical to adoption as usefulness—so the first lesson is keep it simple.

In fact, less is often more from a user’s perspective. While some will want all sorts of “cool” features, most people just want to get their job done quicker and more easily.

The second is that best practices can take decades to adopt. Invariably, best practices means doing things right, which usually requires more work up front, and since most of us are busy and are used to doing things the way we’ve always done them, consistently following best practices is a challenge at best.

For example, CRM/sales-force automation systems promise all sorts of benefits to the sales person and organization, but it has taken two decades and billions of dollars in failed implementations to get to a state where most sales people are comfortable with them and willing to enter their sales information into the system.

Management systems in the collision shop market are another example. Despite the proven benefits of using a management system, reducing cycle time, increasing productivity, profits, etc., it’s taken nearly two decades to achieve a 50% penetration rate.

Why? Because mass adoption has required dramatic economic and cultural/generational changes in the industry. The best practices encapsulatedin the management systems had to move from the extreme into the mainstream. And for the most part, that meant people literally changing jobs and bringing the new tools and ideas with them. In many cases, those new ideas and tools were rejected. But over time as more and more people were exposed to the new technologies and ideas, and a new generation of employees never knew that there was another way to do business, management systems have become standard equipment in the majority of the better shops.

On the other hand, think about the Web. In many cases it simplifies and eliminates the need to physically search for something, e.g. when was the last time you went to the library for a research project? As a result, the adoption curve has been incredibly dramatic.

So remember, if your solution requires significant extra work for extra benefits, know that the adoption lifecycle will most likely be long and arduous. Do anything possible to simplify the workflow and/or be absolutely indispensable.

Understand the market

How often have you heard or said, “How can we go wrong, it’s a virtually untapped $X billion market?”

I know I’m guilty of that and have personally paid the price. The real question is, what percentage of the market is realistically likely to adopt your product? And are you automating the exceptions or the norm?

For example, you’ve created a great new window-washing tool that can clean windows 50% faster and 200% better than a standard squeegee!

Every house in America has windows, so just imagine the incredible market! But how many Americans regularly clean their home windows? Not many. You really have two markets.

1. The window washers of the world: They already believe in the virtue of clean windows and regularly spend time cleaning them. For this group, you’re subtracting from their work and therefore giving them the gift of time and delivering better results in the process.

2. The rest of us: I know I should probably clean my windows more often, but heck, they’re going to get dirty anyway. (Yes, I’m married and drive my wife nuts with this kind of logic.) First, you have to persuade me of the value of sparkling clean windows and then you’ve got to convince me your product is the best for the job. And finally, you’ll most likely need to cajole me into actually using the product since it will require “extra” work on my behalf.

And that was the problem we ran into with our product. For the 1% of the shops that regularly double-checkedtheir work, the product both simplified and improved their processes.

For the other 99%, it was a much more challenging sales and implementation/adoption process. In some cases, the users took to it like fish to water and now can’t imagine not having the product. But for a large percentage it took endless cajoling and hand holding, and then as soon as we left, they stopped using it.

Better versus good enough

Growing up, I thought whip cream only came out of a can. Then I tasted homemade. One creamy spoonful and I swore I’d never go back to the can.

Now, three kids later I still love fresh homemade whipped cream, but sadly 80% of the time I rely on the can because it’s quick and easy and lasts forever in the fridge. I know my pie or hot fudge sundae would taste better with the “real” stuff, but I usually don’t want to take the extra five or ten minutes to make it and clean up. Besides, my kids, the primary consumers, don’t even notice the difference.

Even though the stuff that comes out of the can is clearly inferior to the homemade, I use it because it’s good enough and requires virtually no effort to use. And, since it’s a “should have” (some would even claim a nice-to have) I’ll often skip the extra benefit altogether rather than take the extra time and effort.

The same is true with software. Users will often choose “sub-optimal” solutions because they’re easier, or not use anything at all because they don’t like the extra work—even if it makes the difference between just okay and great.

Product design

The most successful software combines extra benefits and eliminates steps. The spell checker in Microsoft® Office Word is a great example. Why? Because the product highlights the errors as I’m writing so I don’t have to take the extra step to run the spell checker.

The lesson is to eliminate as many steps as possible and provide the tightest, most seamless integration possible that delivers benefits sooner than later. One of the most common errors is the creation of yet another application that the user has to launch.

This is especially true in the business intelligence/management reporting space. All too often, these companies expect the users to launch the application and then spend their time querying the system to get the value they paid for.

What typically happens is that the software sits unused like countless pieces of gym equipment gathering dust in homes across America. As one user remarked after we showed him our reporting software:

“I’m busy. I’ve got ten things I absolutelyneed to do. Twenty I really should do—and at the end of the day, I’ve only done three or four of them. So just email me a report that tells me what’s on fire today and how to fix it. And if you can eventually tell me what’s going to catch fire tomorrow and what I can do to prevent it, great! If not, I don’t want it and I’m not going to use it.”

Whenever possible, push the informationdirectly into an existing application so the user doesn’t have to actually do anything to receive the benefits, e.g. instead of forcing the user to launch a separate reporting application, deliver the reports right into their email.

Sometimes what people want is really a service rather than a product. So if you can convince people of the end value, but you can’t get them to actually do the work required, you may have more success bundling it into a service. After all, isn’t that why people hire window washers?

Piggyback marketing

Once you’ve built the product, focus your marketing and sales efforts on the most likely early adopters. The best way to do that is to find prospects that are already practicing what you preach. Otherwise, you’re going to waste a lot of money and time on unqualified prospects who even if they buy your product may actually never use it.

I recently had this challenge with a client that has a really great product for analyzing open-ended feedback. The company believed we should try to convince everybody of the value of collecting customer feedback and then why open-ended comments were more valuable than closed-ended structured data. Under that scenario, a sales person would spend a lot of valuable time convincing a prospect why they should implement best practices in customer feedback—and then how our tool could improve the process. Talk about a long and arduous sales cycle!

My recommendation was that the company should identify companies that had already adopted best practices and focus their efforts on selling how the solution could simplify and improve what they’re already doing. Instead of trying to create an entirely new initiative, the company could piggyback upon an existing corporate project that already has executive sponsorship, corporate buy in and committed resources.

So whenever possible, identify “hot” best practices methodologies that already have significant traction and integrate your product and marketing into that existing market. Now instead of competing for attention with Six Sigma® or NetPromoter, you’re an enabler that can feed into the larger ecosystem.

It may take you years and decades to focus on marketing “best practices” to industry influencers and thought leaders in order to grow the potential market for your product.

Implementation

While it would be wonderful to only sell to incredibly motivated customers and users that don’t need any assistance, the reality is that a large percentage of your customers will both be implementing your software and best practices for the first time.

It’s not enough to train users how to use the software—you need to show them the value and get their buy in.

In fact, I learned a very painful but important lesson during my first product management job:

The success of product/project = the quality of the product or plan x the % buy in

Unfortunately, I learned that lesson too late but it’s always stuck with me and I have used that equation to good effect ever since.

If you’re going to force change on an organization or users, here are a few suggestions:

Get the buy in at both the top and the bottom.It’s not enough to think that getting the CEO to buy in will lead to user buy in. If enough users squawk and the CEO begins viewing your product as too disruptive, the product will usually be ejected.

Start slowly. Don’t overwhelm the users with too much in the beginning. Help them get comfortable with the basics. It’s important that they feel they’re getting as much pain-free value as possible.

Move the cheese.Talk is cheap, compensation is golden. If you want your users to do something different, compensate them for the perceived extra work. Nothing guarantees failure faster than when an employee is told to do one thing and rewarded for something entirely different.

Change the org chart. New technologies require new processes and positions to leverage and support the new infrastructure.

Create standard operating procedures. Work with the users to create new standard operating procedures that they agree to and can easily follow. Don’t expect them to magically figure out how best to incorporate the new technology into their organization.

Be there. People hire personal trainers because they know that particularly in the beginning, a little extra push and encouragement to overcome their inertia is needed.

Empathy

I’ve worked in seven different verticals at four different companies, and I always hear the same complaint from product managers and engineers. “Our users aren’t like other customers. They’re technologically unsophisticated laggards.”

As a result, I’ve come to the conclusion that our users aren’t the ones who are different, we just happen to be in love with computers and our products. So every time I hear complaints about our users’ IQ and how easy our product is to use, I ask, “Can you explain how to forward a phone call?”

In all my years, I’ve only met a handful of people who actually know how to forward a phone call. Most of us just tell the caller, “Uh, I’ll try, but if I lose you, call his direct line.” and then we press some buttons and hope the call went through.

So remember for product success, have empathy for your users and don’t expect them to be as enthusiastic as you are about your product and willing to go the extra mile (or inch) to make it work.

The bottom line

Just because something is good for you, doesn’t mean people will do it. Don’t get blinded by the potential ROI of your product. Get out from behind your spreadsheet and start thinking like a typical user who’s got a thousand things to do and just wants to get home to see their kids.

And remember:

The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions which is why people often say one thing and do something entirely different.

Understand whether you’re automating an existing standard or enabling a yet-to-be-widely-adopted process to accurately identify the size of your market.

Subtract, don’t add to your user’s work, otherwise you’ll increase your implementation costs and reduce your adoption rate.

Piggyback your marketing and sales efforts on existing methodologies and markets instead of trying to position your product as something entirely new.

Change takes effort above and beyond just teaching people what buttons to press, so be prepared to provide professional services.

Be empathetic. Try to imagine yourself in your customer’s shoes and ask yourself, “How can I make their life easier?”

And finally, while it’s hard to be dispassionate about the benefits of fresh whipped cream, realize that for most people “fresh” from the can is good enough—and as a result “better” generally loses to “easier” in the marketplace.

Rusty hasn’t switched “soley” to EPS, most of his team is still on PU… Rusty hope he can produce 60% EPS as stated at his last stockholders meeting and boardbuilders forum.