resistance to change...why

General Discussion
81

Aloha JTroy - actually, Koa is coming back… Well, maybe that’s not the best way to put it… Either way, some of us out there are trying to make a difference. If you ever get the chance, check out the Hakalau National Wildlife Refuge here on the big island. It would blow your mind, and give you hope. Not to mention that the refuge has recently grown another decent amount of acreage due to a recent purchase of adjacent land. The amount of volunteers that go up to Hakalau to plant Koa and other native plants and trees is fantastic. There’s actually a waiting list to go up and volunteer. If you were to fly over the refuge, you would see a beautiful and majestic Koa forest, thousands of acres in size. The volunteers and the efforts of the hortuculturist in charge are making a difference. And the native birds are making a comeback. In fact, at the recent centennial celebration of the NWR system, several high mucky-mucks from Washington were overheard telling the hortuculturist in charge that if they could clone him and his volunteers, we wouldn’t have a problem in any of our NWR’s. Keeping in mind of course that Hakalau is a National Wildlife Refuge and no harvesting of trees is permitted. There are other ongoing projects here on the big island that are working to promote the growth of Koa and other native trees. The Kekua Foundation (organizers of the recent World Sprints canoe races here in Hilo just a week ago) is actively working on reforestation and sustainable harvesting of koa. And just in last week’s Hawaii Tribune Herald, there was an open announcement, looking for a company to actively pursue sustainable planting and harvest of koa. Koa can still be found on Oahu, but not in the abundance that it once was. And much of it is in protected exclosures with no access permitted. It is much more accessible on the big island, though it’s accesibliity can lead to poaching problems. Last year a poacher was found with several hundred thousand dollars worth of koa that he was stealing from a remote site. Unfortunately, in the grand scheme of things, he was let off with a mere slap on the wrist. Not acceptable. Either way, any and all of us can make a difference in protecting our native flora and fauna. Volunteer. On any of the islands. Contact your local NWR (link through bottom of Hakalau page) National Park. Forest Service. DLNR. Give just a few hours of your time. More if you can. Make a difference…

a hui hou

waxfoot

82

Waxfoot,

This is good news.

I’m stoked.

Now for the #1 reason I didnt buy any Koa. Just because I could was not good enough for me. Though the mill assured us it was legal Koa I could not be absolutely certain it was in fact legal Koa. Something bothered me. It was a small mill. That’s all, but that’s what bothered me. It’s just not worth it to me to risk pillaging the forests of HI for a hard to shape wood just so I could say I had a Koa board. So by doing nothing I did something good.

83

I’ve been using straight-up 100% biodiesel in my Ford F250 4x4 for quite awhile now. There is no need for the world to be burning any petro any more. Petro should all be conserved for easy plastic production such as epoxy for the future. Plastics can and are being made from vegetables also, an example is Nylon 11, which is very high performance, and made from African beans.

My truck runs smoother and quieter than with old fashioned diesel. The biodiesel also cleans your engine. With biodiesel you don’t even need to modify your engine. I’ve got almost 200,000 miles on mine with no repairs yet…except the brakes. You can huff the exhaust! My biodiesel is made from soy. It smells like popcorn from an air popper…with just a few black kernels. Farmers in the future could be back in the money!

The ultra-light epoxy surfboards I made back in the early eighties are still totally intact, light by today’s standards and very surfable. I used SP 115 from the UK back then. I shared a surf with Paul Jensen on my old epoxy twinny while he had his first go on his hollow blue a couple months ago. Epoxy kicks arse over polyester in it’s thermoset form, both old and new. And we’re working on even better materials, coming soon!

I use farmed timbers with the only added nutrient being chicken sh*t in the soil. The trees mature in as little as five years. Growing trees is good for air quality.

There is no need for wars, people can get more environmentally responsible real quick right now. Politicians and religions trick people into dislike of each other. Polyurethane foam monopolists trick people into fear of epoxy or anything new. The large clothing companies and the magazines have no hidden agendas to promote polyester surfboards. Alot of people I know in the surf-money industry that can get anything they want to surf for free, choose to buy a Surftech or two for the quiver. Surfboard materials are getting exciting again.

People just need to keep communicating and hump more.

Love, Delbert Pumpernickel

84

Interesting you brought up Archer Daniels Midland. Just finished reading “Against the Grain” (can’t remember the author at the moment). ADM is not some altruistic corporation just interested in providing food and fuel to the world. They are a parasitic blight on the nation responsible for pushing ‘high fructose corn syrup’ on us all. They live off government agricultural subsidies and have bought off politicians on both sides of the aisle.

In addition, fuel produced from corn, often referred to as gasohol, actually requires more energy to manufacture than it provides!

ADM produces primarily grain corn, BTW, which is unuseable as food by humans unless it is processed in one form or another (e.g. turned into alcohol, fed to cattle, processed for its sugar, that is, High Fructose Corn Sweetener, etc,.)

These are are all true facts (I have other references besides “Against…”) but ADM couldn’t give a flying you know what less because they are making the BIG BUCKS by screwing us all over.

Sorry to go off on another ‘rant’ but just have to share this info.

Also, be aware that the Government, in collusion with big business agriculture (e.g., ADM but others as well) is covering up the extent and severity of Mad Cow Disease. Like someone wrote on this web site, ‘follow the money…’

P.S. - GIM, I ride kneeboards and am 48 years old.

P.P.S. - Mark I think you are right on about Cuba. The present U.S. policy towards that nation is totally asinine and inhumane. If anything it keeps Castro in power but, as usual, political considerations are placed above basic human needs. Reminds me of the observation regarding the difference between Communism and Capitalism: ‘Communism is an example of man’s inhumanity towards man, whereas in Capitalism it’s the opposite!’

85

I use steel paper clips, not plastic.

I prefer my coffee in a ceramic mug, not plastic.

My 2001 Honda Civic get great millage and is good for the environment, but I would rather be driving a V8 muscle car because it FEELS BETTER and has steel door handles, not plastic.

I guess the only time I prefer plastic to metal is when I get shot at a protest rally turned riot.

My point is that just because someone prefers Poly doesn’t mean they are resistent to change. They just like what they like best.

I tried epoxy boards. I don’t like them.

I like heavier boards (but not wood).

I guess I’m old fashioned because I like women who DONT have a tattoo on their lower back, a belly button ring, and a tounge piercing.

Plus, I have yet to personally witness ANYONE rip on a Surftech in person. NEVER.

Tell you what: If I see you rip on an epoxy in North County, I’ll buy you a case of beer. But you gotta rip.

86

Whoa, I went out for a mother-in-law birthday dinner and came back to all these incredible posts this morning!

Retroman - I knew you were in there, brother (rant away)…

I just didn’t get the message in the first post you injected!

What do we use? Soy beans?

Tell us more, holly, Is it pure plant and what kind? product biodiesel or mixed with petroleum for sure? Where can you get it? Availability?

What wood is available that is suitable for surfboards in the California region? Monterey pine? Is balsa imported - and If we all start using it will it become scarce? Can it be grown here? You say that you use hand tools… which ones?

JTroy , you started this thread, a resistance to change means resistance to what? Are you just referring to epoxy? Anything else?

Mark and waxfoot anything else? What are some solutions?

Is Abe - Fairmont’s bored doppleganger?

Hmmm…Pure and simply - ALL humans must surf. It should be taught in the schools, it should be a requirement for citizenship, it should be done by world leaders and any policy decision makers & never too old/never too young. Start working on that friend that doesn’t surf and get them to the ocean one day… I’ve got someone in mind. He is a police chief…Hmmm. Now where is that old boogie board?

87

Koa is nice stuff I am glad to hear good things.Did you guys know that some of the finest hardwoods in the world are coming from the bottom of river and lake beds?Yep…Way back in the old days the loggers used to float them on rivers down to sawmills.Well the best of the virgin timber was so heavy that the logs actually would sink along the route.There are salvage companies that are now retrieving them.This is a number one primo virgin lumber like walnut,cherry,birch etc.That water actually preserved the wood.You can buy boards 4 feet wide and any thickness you need.If you find the right mill you may be able to get a nice big “blank” for a true OLo type board.Some of these logs are so valuable they actually use helicopters to lift them.I have only read about these things.When I finish this post I am going to do some Googling to find out who has the stuff.You young computer guys may have better luck than me so go for it.

88

D’oh.

I guess I forgot to preface everything by saying,

“If I was ruler of the universe I’d…” :slight_smile:

I have no illusons about ADM. Who could? But ADM is no better than any multinational oil company.

However, the real problem is, you guessed it, us. I don’t mean just us surfers. I mean everyone. The other day I was sitting in the car at a grocery store parking lot and as I watched the people come and go I was struck by the realization that that corn sweetener report must have some truth in it because everyone was FAT!

IT WAS A PANORAMA OF FAT.

Next time you see a surfer or anyone driving an H2…etc…think.

Because there are many other kinds of “fat”.

I first lost any illusions I may have had by reading my history book in JR High. They may not have known it but our history is subversive in it’s own right. It was all downhill from there. Govt is the biggest business in this country. Biggest payroll, biggest budget…it’s the same everywhere.

It was me who wrote “follow the money”. I’ve used that quote many times back in college and business. But to tell the truth I got it from The Rockford Files!":wink: For those of you who dont know it was a 70’s era TV show about a private investigator in LA. Great show starring James Garner. That doesnt mean it’s not valid. People can learn a lot from anectdotal experience even fictional.

As for “In addition, fuel produced from corn, often referred to as gasohol, actually requires more energy to manufacture than it provides!” I’ll have to check on that one. But at first glance I’d be suspicious. MY first suspicion would be the cost of the raw material. If on one hand ADM is processing mainly corn sweeteners than anything else they produce would have to be as profitable or at least cost the public as much. Why else would they make it? That said the price structure is probably a fabrication. Anything they say would be suspicious regarding facts about ethanol production. Next if corn sweeteners were suddenly not cost effective because sugar drove the price down then raw material corn (cow corn) would be cheaper still because the market would be flooded. The only way to stabilize the market would be to buy it up and process it into alcohol.

Regarding Mad Cow, I have a cuzn lives on a farm in upstate NY. Back in 1994 (I think it was) when we first heard about mad cow he told me that in that month alone there were 14 cases of mad cow in his county alone; Schenectady. I didnt believe him because (first he’s an idiot) when I told him I saw a deer with three legs he told me he saw one with two and both on the same side. Who would believe that, right? Well on Animal Planet they had a dog who ran on two legs both on the same side. So now I wonder about the deer and the mad cow. But I still have to consider the source and most important the fact that he offered no proof.

As for Cuba, if Bush really wanted to settle the score he’d call Castro at midnight tonight and say he’s dropping the sanctions. Castro would probably drop dead on the spot. If not he would probably die in his sleep. If not the sight of Americans freely walking the streets of Havana would kill him. If not the sight of US Marines walking in the streets would kill him for sure. If not what have we lost really?

He’s probably had a stroke.

89

hey abe …a few pics for ya …there epoxy and there wood all in one package…

hey holly where ya been havent seen ya on for ages…?

yea i know some crew, one in particular who gets loads of boards for free , i was thinking about telling the story , but then to many crew would know who it was, then they might not give him free boards anymore…

simply put he gets boards for free in exchange for advertizing, he then sells those boards so he can buy mine , he also has got surftechs that he brought…

interesting since he gets boards given to him by the best p/u p/e shapers in the world…

just a point about balsa…

all my balsa is plantation timber , its harvested at 4 years , no chemicals …

if they dont harvest it at 4 years , after that age the tree sends down a major tap root deep into the ground, if it strikes minerals or other compounds in the soil , it can then pull up different colours into the grain, thats regarded as bad, but in my case i actually ask for the coloured stained stuff , that way no 2 boards look the same…

i will take this opportunity to give mike another pat on the back…

swaylocks is probably the best thing that ever happened to the surfboard industry…

now the facts can be presented , then discussed (if not heated sometimes)different logical arguements thrown in ,and the real story starts to emerge…

communication is the key to knowledge, which leads to better decision making capabilities…

then we can make informed choices…

regards

BERT

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90

Hey all I can say as far as solutions is to spew that old saw “Think globally act locally.”

It’s what you buy that counts. It’s what you drive. It’s the way your live your life.

I have to say one thang that I cant hold any longer. I have some 30-45 yr old surfboards too. The reason they are still in one piece is that they were made with polyester resin before the EPA got it’s hands on the formula. That’s not to say I advocate going back to the “killer” resin. I say take a good look at Resin Research epoxy because GL has the mindset of someone who cares.

I did my homework and everything about his company is for real. He wants you to have a stronger board (he can make it heavier and even stonger by adding more glass so that is not an issue) he is an environmentalist businessman offering a real and affordable solution even to the backyard shaper/glasser. And he doesnt want to hurt you. His system is safe. Think about all the shapers and glassers in their 50’s and 60’s who have died recently from cancer. Do we really need other people to tell us what we already know?

If we are all to surf shouldnt we clean up our sport on our own. I know this is a stretch, judging by the mental talent at my home break. How many stitches does it take before the kid who keeps dropping in and finning you gets the message? Answer, he’s not the one bleeding in the ambulance so until he does he’ll never get it.

Point is people dont change till they feel it in their wallet.

Maybe someone else can pick it up from here.

91

One other thing about Greg .In his prime he was one of the best surfers on the friggin planet.He had to much soul to really pursue the contest deal but when he did enter one he would usually win.I can remember on epic overhead day at Sebastion Inlet where he did some of the best shortboard surfing I had ever seen.

92

Yea - Mark!

Hmm…My keepers are ALL older boards - I get your point. Right between the eyes. You hit brain matter.

Also I might not even be on this thread, but my son took a head hit with his old poly board above the eye almost to the temple (12 stitches) THE DAY BEFORE we were supposed to pick up the epoxy boards from HDX. Second hit - brain matter.

Also in a previous post where I was talking about ready-made surf experience - what you see is what you get. When I cruise into my local surf shop I don’t see the future - I see the present. And it’s the same thing that’s in the surfboard mags. Also I drive an old Japanese made Toyota pick-up that I got from my uncle who lived in a dome in Encinitas, god rest his soul, but my son drives a newer model Escape that his sister gave him for take over payments…argh. The kids today just make use of what’s available to them - ready made. When I peeled the fiberglass off my old boards it’s cause if you wanted to experiment with two layers of 6 oz cloth instead of two layers of 8 oz. you had to do it yourself. (Does anyone remember how one of those early light board decks looked? Golf ball dimples comes to mind)

Do you realize what the magazine “Longboarder” did for longboards? More than half the blanks sold are for longboards now. That’s incredible to me - the power of the written word. How about two magazine suggestions for the future? Wooden Surfboards and Alternate Surfcraft? Let’s get these guys thoughts and tips down before we lose the chance and the battle to supply the kids with WHAT THEY NEED - not just what’s available - present tense. Third hit - I’m out of here.

I’m ready for the future and I’m pulling my son over the edge with me. Anyone else coming?

ps My favorite wall picture was a watershot of Greg on a pipeline wave that just looked impossible (70’s?)

93

Cleanlines, you are right! I believe Greg Loehr was #2 in the world when he walked off the tour. He had a family to take care of…he is a man with all his priorities in order. He went on to shape for several major labels and top tour pros. He developed epoxy technology to the Nth degree never settling, invented the chip, eventually shaping over 30K boards himself, started up and ran two companies. He is the most core surfer I know. He was also the most photographed surfer in his day.

Now he’s on the street taking his experience with epoxy to the masses.

Then last year he entered Dick Catri’s Easter contest and won, beating a stacked heat of legends in overhead some say perhaps double overhead.

94
Quote:

JTroy , you started this thread, a resistance to change means resistance to what? Are you just referring to epoxy? Anything else?

Well any kind of change not just epoxy.

Has anything changed in the last 30 years? Nope same resin same fiberglass same constuction and the boards overall are less durable. Design has come a long way. I admit i like light high performance shortboards with 4+4+4 layup but I hate the durability and the resale value sucks.

95

Yep.Those were good times back then.Here we are talking behind Gregs back,Hah.I can remember when he was the Clark Foam delivery guy.He would come to to my factory in Jacksonville Beach.FLA

driving this Giant Dodge Power Wagon with blanks stacked 10feet in the air.Kinda reminded me of Sanford and Son.Hey Greg what kind of mileage did you get in that beast?

96

GhostInMachine,

I’m on the other side.

I have Greg’s “Magic” board. At least that’s what everyone called it, including Steve Forestall, when I was loading it on my car. It’s a 7-8 yr old no stringer 7’10" square wing tail(only one I’ve ever seen) epoxy of course and it is super light and fast. It took out a 10’ poly longboard which dropped in and bailed and shot at me and I hit it rail to rail. Not a scratch on the Loehr but a major 10"+ gash in the poly with 10 oz. double wrapped rails. The longboarder was having a bad day and he apoligized so I wasn’t mad or anything. A week later he still was in disbelief.

Oddity: When two epoxy boards collide neither get dinged. Less inertia and stronger materials.

Sorry to hear about your son. Hope he’s feeling better.

People say what they want about longboarders, but I cant group them in one bunch. In the day they were tremendous innovators. From Simmons on they invented new things constantly. People forget that fact. They pigeon hole the lot as dinosaurs. Nothing could be further from the truth. One example of a guy who totally embodies the transiion from long to short is Joel Tudor. He is as much of a 60’s and 70’s innovator as he is a complete embodiment of that era.

He got on my MVG team as fast as he could and embraced the new technology way before any other pro with the exception of the CFL gang. I’m glad he won last week. I hope he takes it all this year.

Fact: Loehr was one of the first 5-6 guys to pull in at Pipeline. Be stoked!

97

Cleanlines, Greg’s reading this. I got an email from him today. It’s all good. I didnt know he was a Clark Foam delivery guy. Cool . He’s had every job there is in surfing. Add to the legend.

98

I thought I’d mention this. A few weeks back someone on Swaylocks was looking for a 1970’s SUNSET surfboard.

Well, I got one. It’s a 1972, 6’2" SUNSET w/green Colorflow glass bottom and white deck. I’m the original owner. I have the receipt from (the original storefront) Freedom Surf Shop in Beach Haven NJ. It has no tail rocker. Fast as hell, but a bitch to turn.

99

Hey cleanlines, those Dodge Power wagons were used her in NZ as ambulances. I have one which I pulled off the road last year due to rust, but it will be back on the road eventually. My one runs a Chrysler 225ci slant six and the fuel economy is quite good if you don’t thrash it. Here’s a picture of it.

100

Other side???

Country, board length or universe?

If it’s board length - I’m riding short boards (7’5" and 8’5") to hang with my son and his friends and enjoy my precious little time left with him. When I surf with my friend Bob, we go big (9’7’ and 10’2")

And yes thank god it is Greg (from a west coast guy even) if anyone can pull it off - or deserves the rewards - It is he.