Yeah it makes you wonder about the credibility of the fin suggestor huh, human or computer!
Feels like i just walked into a pretty unfriendly bar, but Im thirsty so stuff ya!
Wouldnt it be nice to have a computer recommend a fin for your board? Even better a ranking of a few types of fins?
Thats what we thought: “that would be nice” and we had a stab at it.
Well allow me to open your eyes, it would be pretty impressive if 10 simple questions answered to a dumb interface could make every surfer in the world happy with the response. Please wake up.
Sounds like the fish fin recommendation area needs work, try fish keels, MR twin fins etc obviously.
Would it have been better to not offer this part of the website at all? Thats what we thought.
We tweak this selector all the time, so it will improve.
My advice, try the selector and then try the fins from a test drive in your local surf shop. If they dont suit you or your board, well you just learnt something didnt you.
Jeez, we didnt ask for your money to buy the fins at the end of the questionaire.
Forgive us for trying something new and trying to be helpful.
Maybe I’m really dense but I still can’t figure out who ripped off what from where !
But when I find out I’m going to be OUTRAGED !
“Tom”
In this context I think “ripped off” means disapointed, not robbed. I don’t know that you can get OUTRAGED about someone having disapointment visited upon them.
Quote:
Maybe I'm really dense but I still can't figure out who ripped off what from where !But when I find out I’m going to be OUTRAGED !
I see you working.
Like our conservative Senator (don’t remember which one) who, when asked, wouldn’t define pornography, but famously fumed, “I know it when I see it!”
FCS REP,
Nice arrogant reply to someone who would dare to question your obvious deep understanding of fin design, so wonderfully dished out by computer to any unsuspecting Swaylocker you mistakenly hits your exploitive add site thinking they may actually be helped!!
You mention how thirsty you are, well anyone who spewed out that many lame excuses laced with arrogance and cries for fogivness, would really need a drink!
I bet Surfahart really appreciated this projectile from FCS,
Well allow me to open your eyes, it would be pretty impressive if 10 simple questions answered to a dumb interface could make every surfer in the world happy with the response. Please wake up.
[=1]
[ 2]Well we are now awake, VERY AWAKE !! Awake up to the fact that you admit your “dumb interface” can’t even answer “10 simple questions”. So Bert was right in calling this thread “RIPPED OFF” (“conned” would also be appropriate) because FCS has used adds on Swaylocks to con surfers into relying on information that is bullshit and you know it![/][/]
Quote:
My advice, try the selector and then try the fins from a test drive in your local surf shop. If they dont suit you or your board, well you just learnt something didnt you.
Forgive us for trying something new and trying to be helpful.
Best advice: Use futures
FCS Rep: You guys play hardball with your dealers and who you open with your products, don’t blame the guys here for shooting straight with ya. Listen to the message and if it don’t suit you, well you just learnt something didn’t you. Karma.
Arrogance is what I got out of it also. Stuff ya! I bet FCS don’t say that to shapers & retailers? Being that FCS have basically told me to get stuffed, I say to FCS, stuff you, my days of using FCS are now very limited.
What happened to the days of FCS just wanting to improve our abilities, they offered great advice, result being money spent money on their products.
Now it seems the mighty dollar first, get real techno on their ads 2nd, help consumer 3rd. Maybe that’s why I see less FCS now and more of others?
As the FCS rep stated, MR’s etc are obvious for fishes (which is what I use), the fin selector was built by FCS yet it’s results were far from obvious.
‘Sounds like the fish fin recommendation area needs work’…bullshit in my opinion, just an obvious push to sell me on their latest gig, something I don’t need.
Good on you for at least walking into the bar FCSRep, although this is a virtual bar, so its not like some half pissed idiot is going to come over and take a swing at you, plus all the patrons of this bar are much too civilised to do that sort of thing anyway.
I actually thought a bit about building my own version of your online fin selecter, but I realised its not a trivial exercise, so I’d urge you to work on yours a little more.
My suggestion would be to set up a password protected version of your fin selector app that allows users to input their own reccommendations where they believe the advice given isn’t up to scratch. Distribute the login info to all board makers who order large volumes and variety of your fins and see what kind of feedback you get - could also PM the login info to Swylockers who know a bit about fins and don’t have a vested interest in any particular system.
Quote:
Arrogance is what I got out of it also.
This is the way they do business also. I think their days are numbered in the U.S. anyway without some change. Use glass ons, they ride better anyway.
Adding info to you site is a good thing. However, rather than taking the oracle approach (you ask me I tell you), which you will have to admit is rather elitist, why not take a more democratic approach and have a rider feedback area: Accessible to all. This is not an admission of weakness, but rather a position of strength and leadership.
We are well into the information age my friend. People are very savy and can smell a rat a mile away. When people are looking for leadership and get something even vaguely akin to a sales pitch it’s going to set off a stampede.
In the age of Blogistics even the Whitehouse takes notice of what is being said on the blogs. Ignoring your buying public, when you don’t have to, and when people are used to having more access and input, your strategy is years behind the times.
Just a humble suggestion.
I dunno. Arrogance? If the guy didn’t stick up for his company would we think any better of him?
If you don’t like the product, don’t buy it. Its that easy.
I don’t see any other fin companies even trying to make a recommendation.
And I don’t use FCS. But you guys are only cutting them down, not offering much. Well, the open rider-feedback thing is a good idea. Like a Swaylocks-style ‘review this resource’. But slamming them for trying something? That’s pretty freakin’ pointless, if you ask me.
Hi Folks,
I moved this thread to industry talk, cause I think that’s where it fits.
I also moved it to get everyone’s attention to say I think this is an interesting an potentially valuable thread, so let’s keep it civil and constructive.
Be warned…this thread is on MODWATCH!
Enjoy,
Swaylock
the real strange thing about this whole thread is that properly finning a board is not complicated at all…general rules of thumb work…bigger guy, bigger fins…more drive, more stiff etc etc…anyone with a bit of knowledge and half a brain can dial in…
this thread is so over-the-top…but hey thats the way the online forum cookie crumbles…
one things for sure tho…if someone did get ripped-off, i too will be OUTRAGED!
…but only for a few seconds…
still waiting…
Dude this thread is awesome … . Oh man I just about died laughing at the Bert’s NEV board abuse. Well the humor was to cover that sickening feeling of seeing my pu/pe board go through the same thing . . .
And an FCS rep shows up. Oh man. I could see them rolling up with 3-4 guys in suits covering the hawaiian print shirt, sheepish smiling reps, as they explain to the sways mob the merits of their fin system. How about redesigning the plug so its stronger (look to futures and Red X or loxbox for clues), and having them delivered with adapters to fit the ‘old’, not offer boxes with same design but diff plastic?
And greg L jumping in about Micky’ D’s, or Maccas, the Hawaiian situation, I cant wait for greg l’s stuff to become available down here . . . just good stuff!
Whoo hoo, best forum entertainment yet.
What a cool discussion! Currently I own 2 boards with FCS systems. (A 6’9" and a 7’2" - Both Channel Islands). I’ve found them to be pretty reliable until recently - I broke out a side fin on the 6’9", and the forward “cup” pulled out with it.
I can’t recommend experimenting with your fins enough (I’m sure most of you know this!). Different center fins, side fins, even asymetrical set ups have proved beneficial.
Does anyone out there have experience with RED-X fins? How do they compare?
Hi everyone, I am too an ‘FCS Rep’ being that I work for SHI as well although in a different role to the “FCS REP”.
I have been watching this thread with great interest as just as many of you have said it provides for me some great feedback to new developments that I then use to deal with my customers on a daily basis.
Bert Burger is my customer, I see him regularly and in fact personally I get on with him quite well, (If you are reading this Bert, no offence on using your name here!) I also used to be employed by Nev. I then worked for Pipedream another major surfboard label before it became BASE where I worked for Simon Anderson, Maurice Cole, Darren Handley, Rod Dahlberg, Murray Bourton and Nev again also. I would also say that apart from past employers these guys are also good friends of mine as our relationships mean more than a purchase order. They have also taught me alot, not only about surfboards but of the fickle and incestuous form in which the surf industry itself exists.
I won’t go on too much about myself only to say that that reason I changed to work for SHI in the first place was that now not only could I deal with a few renowned shapers everyday I could now deal with hundreds of them in between Angourie and Noosa. Nice area to roam and surf as well eh! Ultimately as a surfer (not a floral shirt over my suit kind of guy!) it gives me the chance to talk to some of the best (or should I say most commercially succesful as well as smaller to micro scale geniuses) shapers whose brains I pick everyday to use towards bettering my own equipment to help me to personaly have more fun in the water. Yes, I surf as well amazing isnt it!
It seems you guys are down on FCS for whatever reason and it could well be the same reason as you are also down on the bigger surfboard labels. The reason I am even here is to put my 20 cents worth into the mix. I imagine many of you will find a way to shoot me down for it somehow but that’s OK, I have dealt with the surfing public at retail and wholesale for over 12 years so I have heard it all and learnt to deal with it.
Swaylocks to me is a place inhabited by people that are either mostly smaller manufacturers, backyard enthusiasts or just crew that like to talk about surfboards in general. I like coming here not only on reconnaisance as you may imagine but also as I enjoy learning something about surfboard design or epoxy technology or fins everytime I have the time to check it out. I am stoked that it exists.
So call me a phony and a hard ball playing big time company sell out pushing bad product to an uneducated, over marketed ‘ripped off’ public in cohootz with the big time production houses. But thruth is I deal with smaller guys than you daily, I don’t play hard ball with anyone other than to give a fair deal and try to communicate the advantages of FCS to the market. Let’s reiterate: ease of install, available anywhere, wide range to suit most people (not all!) and getting much bigger daily. Just wait to see what’s next! ease of repair, does not contribute to weakness of the board etc etc.
Is FCS weaker than other systems? If you actually tested them objectively you’d be very surprised. Yes there’s hype in this world and I assure you that the weakness perception is one of those things that has been over hyped by some of the other companies with anecdotal not factual proof. All is fair in love and war as they say eh! I for one am not scared of a bit of competition. I know and surf with the other local fin reps as well…
You guys are an educated do it yourself bunch; devise your own tests to work out what suits you best. Use a proper fitting fibreglass or stronger fin in all of the systems and bend, smash and punish it as you will and I promise you that if they are all fitted correctly including FCS (did anyone say deck rings) it will stand up, Don’t get defensive, abusive or disbelieving about it, get testing! Every system has it ups and downs, why do I sell and recommend FCS? I reckon it has the least downsides… But that’s my opinion and my job to communicate so take that comment with as many or few grains of salt as you like.
Was Bert ripped off, I’m sure in the context of his mind at that point in time he felt that he was albeit not financially. I think he’d be more concerned with someone riding one of his boards with the wrong fins in it and judging his board on that level. I have had discussions with him about his big boy fins and their absence from our range and I understand his point of view. Bert is lucky enough to have the abilities to make the fins himself that work for him and the few other GIANT customers that he has. Have you seen this guy? Bloody huge! Am I pissed that Bert didnt call me instead of taking this point of view to the internet? Not really, I am more pissed at myself for not being on the level with him that he thought that his feedback to me personally would have been taken on board.
To my point finally, I think you’d find that if you actually spoke to your local FCS rep you’d find that we are not all suit wearing pricks. I try to help my customers to grow their business in any way that it may be possible for me to do so. Am I arrogant? some may say so, but then what human hasn’t been called a name in the past? It would most likely have been for something other than work anyway… Do I screw people over? I hope not, Karma’s a bitch!
Great thread by the way, must have a chat to that FCS REP about pissing off my customers though…
Seeth,
Glad to see your input. Well spoken. The East Coast Rep. Here in the states is a great guy. You guys have a good one with Ronnie.
On FCS itself. I was one of the first dealers in my area to sell them, but unfortunately you guys still play distribution politics in some areas and there is alot of pressure to play ball your way if you want the accessories. doyou sell your plugs and set up without fins if a shaper wants them?
On the product: I have simply seen too many cracked plugs as compared with Futures and many of the fins don’t sit flush to the board because they sit on top of it instead of in a box. As fin boxes go, I think most of them are comparable, but those companies that are the easiest to deal with and handle customer customer/dealer feedback the best will stick here in the states.
Just food for thought.
In order to follow what I’m saying hit the “in reply to” link to go back to the post I’m referring to.
I didn’t say arrogant. I said elitist.
Huge difference.
I have many FCS boards and even more fins. I have O’fish’l, FU boards, and I’m getting Red X, finally now that I can surf again. Who cares? I can’t see how this has anything to do with what I said.
Other fin companies have websites too. You have to go to them. They don’t come to you. Spam is not an option.
Open rider feedback is a good idea and thanks for noticing:-) Other fin companies may use that idea too. It is a free idea and not exclusive to FCS. If you have read the computer softwear thread, you can see how important anticipating your customers needs really is and that is all I am addressing. I’m not condoning slamming, but sometimes you have to hit the mule over the head with a 2x4 to get his attention. Gee that sounds an awful lot like condoning:-)
Guess it depends on the ability of the mule to learn. I can tell you from personal experinece I need the 2x4 over the head often, and I get it.
Let’s talk retail prices ,
FCS…$39 for a standard low budget set of three fins. Plugs extra. (about $4 each)
Glass on fins about $25 for a set of three.
I like FCS and other fin systems but you lose every time when it comes to price.
I’m a back yard builder. No resale card ,no volume discount.
Do I feel “Ripped Off”?
Yes, All fin systems are over priced and over hyped.
Ray